topic Re: Fibre35 Isn't in Broadband

Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 14:08:39 GMT

When moved onto Fibre35 (without being informed!) mid 2021 it worked fine: Sync. down/up: 35/8 Mbps.

Suddenly, after 3-ish months, this dropped to 30/6 and stuck there. I have started trying to recover the promised 'guaranteed' delivery speed : connect modem to test socket, change: filters, cable to modem, Ethernet cable to computer... nothing makes the slightest difference.

TT website test tools reports:

'Speed to router 29Mbps' ('Poor' 'g/tee 35') then a later reports says 'line looks ok'?!

'We cannot recognise your modem or software...you may need to talk to our team' (it is a TT modem but old and clearly not tested by TT when I was switched to Fib.35). None of my other modems will work at all with FTC at all.

Looks to me like an DLM or exchange/cabinet kit disturbance-triggered issue (cabs at the end of my road seem to be opened up weekly by a variety of telco engineers) but there is no mechanism to flag the possibility. The 'Live Chat' button seems to do nothing (win7/win10 , 2different browsers) and 'contact us' links back to the start of the merry go round.

Is there any hope of salvation?

PS If it helps the Interleave level (2529) is way higher than I recall it being when Fib 35 happened out of the blue (but I wouldn't bet the farm on the quality of my er... mmm...)

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

Skynet_TX — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 19:36:53 GMT

Hi @piston,

You may well be right that DLM has tweaked your settings, not sure what model of router you have, but if you can see a downstream noise margin or noise coefficient in the connection stats, what value is that showing ?

If you were syncing at 35 when all was working well, then that is less than the theoretical maximum of 40 for Fibre 35, so that likely means that 35 is the best speed you can get with the normal 'target' noise margin of 6dB. I just wondered if your noise margin was now showing higher than 6dB, as an increasing noise margin is one common indication that DLM has been tweaking things, although as you say, it can also tweak more subtle things like your interleaving.

The TalkTalk staff on this community will be able to help, they will hopefully be able to respond to this post tomorrow to check your line stats.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Dec 2021 06:55:05 GMT

Morning,

I've run a test on the line now which hasn't detected a fault. Can I just confirm, is the router still connected to the test socket at the moment as it can take DLM 24-48hrs to make any changes to the speed if the connection remains stable?

Thanks

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Fri, 17 Dec 2021 09:36:39 GMT

Morning Michelle

Thanks for the swift reply. Router remains in test socket and will be left on 24/7 now and over the weekend. Is being off overnight the reason why the TT test system could not identify my router model/software version?

Regards

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Dec 2021 09:39:11 GMT

Hello,

Thanks for the update and please let us know if the sync speed does not improve over the weekend. If the router is switched off then we wouldn't be able to check the router firmware.

Thanks

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Mon, 20 Dec 2021 10:00:22 GMT

Hi Michelle,

Router on continuously over weekend; no significant change. I have pated some details in case this helps:

HG633
Hardware version: H.1.01
Software version: v2.00t
System up time: 4 days 16 hours 3 minutes 59 seconds

Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 9995
Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 29999
Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 15.8
Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 15.4
Upstream interleave depth: 1
Downstream interleave depth: 1897
Line standard: VDSL2
Upstream line attenuation (dB): 5.5
Downstream line attenuation (dB): 9.8
Upstream output power (dBm): 6.2
Downstream output power (dBm): 13.5
Channel type: Interleaved
DSL up-time: 3 days 8 hours 4 minutes 17 seconds

Given that TT simply upgraded my connection without notice and seemingly without being able to ID my router, is my router up to the job? Or, given that all was fast 'n' fine until suddenly dropping (and sticking) at 29999 has some kit at the exchange, local cab made a decision re my unknown router (it's a techno conspiracy I tell you...).

Regards P

PS What does 'guaranteed 35 Mbps' actually guarantee?

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Dec 2021 10:10:25 GMT

Morning,

I'm sorry to hear that there has been no change. Would you like us to send a replacement router for testing purposes to rule this out? We would also send a router returns bag so that one of the routers can be returned.

Thanks

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

martswain — Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:25:36 GMT

@piston and @Anonymous

Those stats are abnormal, the Noise Safety Coefficients should be 6 dB on a "normal" FTTC line.

You should check for any extraneous noise on the phone line with all internal extensions disconnected, best done by removing the faceplate and connecting to the test socket, phone only at first, then plug in a microfilter and connect your handset and router and check again.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

ferguson — Mon, 20 Dec 2021 12:03:44 GMT

@martswain I would generally agree with what you said there, but in this case the exactness of the downstream rate suggests a fixed profile for some reason. There is often plenty of headroom in the SNR margin for a Fibre 35 connection.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

AllyM — Mon, 20 Dec 2021 20:13:36 GMT

I would agree with what @ferguson says.

The high SNR margin on the upstream suggests that the line should be capable of a fair bit faster if it weren't hitting the 10Mbps Fibre35 limit. On the downstream the high SNR coupled with the very suspicious figure of 29999Kbps suggests the line has had a 30Mbps profile cap applied.

My parents had a similar issue not so long (although with a different ISP and I think theirs was capped at 35Mbps).

If it is a similar situation then the bad news I have is that in My parents' case, it was a matter of several weeks, rather than days, before the DLM released the cap.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 12:44:12 GMT

No phone on system, test socket for connection, have changed all leads and filters to no effect, as per initial post. Speed just dropped one day (from sync. 35Mbps) and has stayed at that regardless.

Regards

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 12:49:03 GMT

'...a matter of several weeks, rather than days, before the DLM released the cap.'... if ever, given that TT diagnostic complains the model/firmware of the router cannot be identified 🙄

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 12:55:02 GMT

Ooh...Yes please! Send it with Santa?

Thanks Michelle and Happy Christmas to you and the other good folks who were kind enough to reply.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

Chris-TalkTalk — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 14:01:07 GMT

Hi piston,

I've ordered a router, it should be with you within a couple of days but please allow up to 5 working days for delivery

Chris

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

AllyM — Wed, 22 Dec 2021 06:01:50 GMT

@piston wrote:
'...a matter of several weeks, rather than days, before the DLM released the cap.'... if ever, given that TT diagnostic complains the model/firmware of the router cannot be identified 🙄

The service centre doesn't ever identify my TalkTalk router either, but I don't think there is any link between TalkTalk's shambles of a website and Openreach's DLM.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 14:34:25 GMT

Greetings all: the new router arrived Xmas Eve (left on doorstep, not popped down chimney).

Large Echo-Life, good throughput and WiFi but not 35Mbps because line rate is stuck 30Mbps as it was with previous router (which was 35+ then suddenly dropped to 30 one morning and never recovered).

I've pasted the Echo's stats below:

DSL synchronization status: Up
Connection status: Showtime
Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 9995
Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 29999
Upstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 15.0
Downstream noise safety coefficient (dB): 17.1
Line standard: Vdsl2_ANNEX_B
Upstream line attenuation (dB): 4.9
Downstream line attenuation (dB): 9.6
Upstream output power (dBm): 6.4
Downstream output power (dBm): 13.7
DSL up time: 9 days 3 hours 24 minutes 41 seconds

Note that the line rates exactly match what my previous router dropped down to ie 9995/ 29999. The perfect, unvarying over 9 days, match seems consistent with what others suggested pre-Xmas: a limit has been put on the line (exchange/cabinet).

PS Used master socket, more new cables filter supplied but not even a single digit line speed change. Line standard descriptor has changed and no mention of Interleaving now.

PPS Speed tests up/down (Mbps): 8.86/28.18 notional average of 6-ish runs.

Deadly Line Management has managed er... nothing. Can someone go and kick the cabinet/ exchange rack?

If Guaranteed 35Mbps (min) is no go then am I free to go? The end of an error (sic)!

Regards

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

ferguson — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 14:45:32 GMT

Hmm. That is most certainly a fixed profile, slower than the potential. You can probably guess the next question, but does your master socket have a test socket? If so give it a go there.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

piston — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 16:22:48 GMT

Yo ferguson, thanks for the reply.

I should have said TEST socket rather than 'Master' in my post. Apologies

Whole saga, both routers, has been with test socket and no other kit present (well, a filter...).

I'll try the TT-site tests and then pop up to the cabinet (with a lump hammer) when it gets a bit darker...😏

Regards

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

ferguson — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 18:36:51 GMT

Ah OK, not sure what more you can do from your end then tbh. I am not sure your neighbours would appreciate the lump hammer approach though....

I have re-escalated this for you, let's see what further advice the support team can offer.

Re: Fibre35 Isn't

Chris-TalkTalk — Wed, 05 Jan 2022 07:45:45 GMT

Hi piston,

As the speed is still low the next step will be to arrange an engineer visit, if you'd like us to do this please let us know and we'll confirm some details

Chris