topic Re: Home automation in Broadband

Home automation

basin-bob — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:00:52 GMT

Hello all

Need some help please.

Having problems with home automation, worked fine with previous supplier (Voda) but now all kinds of problems such as intermittent working or just not working at all. Pairing sometimes but then disconnects and fails then will not pair with the network.

I think this is to do with the 2.4 and 5 ghz ability of the router. The home automation needs 2.4 and the router is not smart enough to know that the item will not work on 5 ghz.

I think the random working is on the occasion that the router does connect at 2.4 ghz.

the Voda router seems to have been able to decipher what the home automation item required.

any ideas please

Re: Home automation

martswain — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 17:49:21 GMT

If the smart device is only 2.4 GHz capable then the router will only try and connect to it using that band.

The fact that the router is also transmitting on 5 Ghz is irrelevant in your scenario.

If you have the Sagemcom hub it has a feature called WiFi optimisation which supposedly selects the best channel, even overriding your manual channel selection, this can cause issues and can only be disabled by TT staff.

You can request that here, then select the least congested 2.4 Ghz channel manually in the router after using a freely available WiFi analyser app to check you local environment.

Irrespective of whether the router is changing channels automatically, you should use an app to check for WiFi interference from your neighbours.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:48:56 GMT

Hi and thanks for your response.

The Router is huawei.

what’s puzzling though, is that although all of the kit is 2.4 ghz only, some of it is working fine whilst others are not. As an example, yesterday evening I managed to get two of my Magic Home bulbs paired up and working through Alexa. They are part of a group of three bulbs and an LED strip. One bulb and the LED strip have continued to work without issue. By the time I went to bed the two I am now having problems with had stopped working and were no longer on the network.

Neighbour's are not an issue as fortunately my nearest one is at least 1/2 a click away.

I did chat to TT technical help, but you only have to read the reply’s to understand the agent was not technical.

Re: Home automation

Birchcroft — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:11:55 GMT

First of all note that I use a 3rd Party router and am not familier with TalkTalk's routers or their configuration options. That said, it is not uncommon for dual band routers to use the same SSID for both the 5 & 2.4GHz bands and employ a technique called "band Steering" to optimise performance by selecting the best band for a device. This can in some cases result in delay for 2.4GHz devices joining the network. I therefore suggest you try the following to see if the situation improves:

If possible disable "band steering".
If this is the case change the SSID of the 5GHz band so it is different to that of the of the 2.4GHz band. This will 'separate' the bands and mean device it only tries to join the selected band. That is it effectively disables "band steering".
If possible disable the 5GHz WiFi so the router only uses the 2.4GHz band.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:28:29 GMT

Thanks for this, I will give it a try over the weekend. Just got to work out how to do it.

Twice now I have found my upstairs Alexa saying she is having problems connecting to the internet and had to reset it. It’s driving me mad at the moment. You never know what’s going to stop working and when.

thanks again

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 11:40:41 GMT

Hi @basin-bob

I will help anyone I can, but I have to insist that these are separate threads one per customer per problem, as these can have a very individual resolution to the problem.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 11:42:45 GMT

Latest position is that I have now re-named the 5ghz channel and for now turned it off, as when I was trying to set up one of the bulbs, half way through the process my iPad I was disconnecting from 2.4 and joining 5. So now I have a 2.4 device being set up on a router only offering 2.4 using an iPad on 2.4, but it’s still not working.

what I have noticed however, is that when you add the device and are asked to go to wifi settings and connect to it, before going back to the app to connect it to the network, or at least try. The device is not being allowed to connect to the internet. Underneath the names of the device (for example it might be LED-xxxxxxx) underneath it in settings wifi, it says “no internet connection”.

I think this is the problem, because I believe these devices register with a manufacturer server somewhere and if they have no internet connection, they cannot achieve that. I could be wrong of course.

any help guys.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 11:45:46 GMT

Hi @basin-bob

There may well be differences for some devices compared to others as they may well be in different areas of your property & even if they are close to a working one, there is no guarantee that their WiFi signals route the same way through the house. The level of WiFi interference throughout the house may well vary.

Slow speed, intermittent dropouts, breaks in the signal, no internet access or no signal on some or all devices, might be caused by Wi-Fi interference from other local networks, which can also lead to a permanent reduction in speed. No ISP can be responsible for your local environment, this is mainly a by-product of the popularity of Wi-Fi.

Generally speaking, the 2.4GHz band suffers much more from interference than the 5GHz band, but the 2.4GHz one can sometimes have a better range, but this all depends on your local area.

The next stage involves sending out a guide to you to help you get me some important diagnostic results, so as I can analyse them for you and recommend changes to your router configuration to solve them.

I only send this out to people who request it.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:33:32 GMT

Hey Keith

Yes please to the guide, I am sure it will be helpful.

have you read the last update I posted. I think it’s something to do with the individual items that are not working being unable to gain access to the internet. I.e. I can now get them connected to the router but not the internet. Could this be a router security issue.

I temporarily moved one of the bulbs very close to the router, but no difference.

if interference is causing any issues it would kind of have to be from my own equipment as my nearest neighbour’s are about 1/2 a click away.

thanks for your help.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:45:27 GMT

Are these devices being allocated a default gateway IP address from the router?

I will PM you a link for a guide of mine on Wi-Fi interference & initially look at the section called "Are you suffering from interference – prove it first". This section includes full details of Wi-Fi analysers that I recommend for Windows, Windows phone, Android and Apple operating systems. However, I have no way of testing the Apple product. Do not worry about interpreting the results, I will do that for you.

Please post the screenshots that I have requested in my guide (no photos please they can be difficult to read as text can get out of focus when zoomed), from the analyser you are using (also in my attached guide). Please ensure that the analyser window is maximised (if Windows) before taking the screenshots & upload them via the "Insert Photos" button (in a mobile browser it's the picture icon) on the post editor's toolbar with the Size parameter set to Large. If they are too small, I will not be able to read them & although I can enlarge them, this just puts the text out of focus. If you prefer PM them to me. If you do PM me, then please add a link in there to this thread, so as I can find it easily.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 14:48:48 GMT

Hi @basin-bob

Currently, I can't send you a PM as you do not have PM's enabled on your Community account. Please make sure that your community profile includes your first & last names, broadband phone number & if possible an alternative contact number. This can be done by clicking on your Avatar picture then click on "My Settings" followed by:-

Personal Profile > Personal Information

Otherwise, TalkTalk will not be able to tie up your forum username to your broadband account. Only you & TalkTalk have visibility of your details. I will ask TalkTalk to enable PMs for you.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:01:16 GMT

Hi Keith

already added the broadband phone number and an alternative mobile along with first and last name on my personal profile. Can you please advise how I enable PM please.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:02:32 GMT

As I said in my last post, I have asked TalkTalk to enable PMs for you.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:16:55 GMT

Thanks again Keith

sorry, missed the bit about you asking TT about PM for me.

“Are these devices being allocated a default gateway IP address from the router?”
Sorry not skilled enough to know the answer to this.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 15:22:16 GMT

Normally the default gateway address is allocated to the device by the router once it connects to the WiFi, or on some devices, it can be statically configured on the device itself. Without a default gateway IP address (this will in effect be the IP address of the router), the device will not know how to route IP packets out to the internet & hence they will have no internet access.

You will have to consult the documentation about these devices or contact the manufacturer's tech support to find out how you can check this.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 16:32:01 GMT

Appreciate that sir, but these devices have been working fine for over two years connecting them in line with the instructions on their app, on both a Voda router and a BT router. The only difference to my setup is the TT black router made by Huawei.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 06:42:29 GMT

Update this morning.

I have managed to get all of my home automation working again. I am not at this stage going to declare its fixed as I have been here before. I have re-named the 2.4 and 5 ghz bands, which to be honest made little difference.
what made the biggest difference was the addition of a TP Link extender. Once plugged in a suitable location everything was able to reconnect.
As I say, I have been here before, so I am currently watching this space, but at the moment is pointing toward the inability of the TT Black hub to provide a usable signal very far at all. Certainly on 2.4 ghz which should travel furthest.
yes it may well be interference, but if that is the case, why was the Voda and BT hubs able to get over the problem. fingers crossed this continues to work.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:18:18 GMT

The level of WiFi interference can change minute by minute. You don't have to check it, but my help is totally free.

Re: Home automation

basin-bob — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:32:46 GMT

Hi Keith

thanks and yes please, I would still like to check and learn how to check for interference. Especially as I have more time now it’s working, the pressure is off.

Re: Home automation

KeithFrench — Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:03:35 GMT

Let me know when the PMs have been enabled then.