topic Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk in Billing

Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Sun, 01 Sep 2024 23:04:20 GMT

I give 2 pictures from my last 2 bills:

From bill of 01/08/2024

From bill of 01/09/2024

I am currently conducting an official complaint.

It has been going on for over 5 months

On the 09/07/2024, the Case Managers, then dealing with my complaint, thought it was a good idea to give me a bribe, so that I might stop annoying them. So, without my consent, they credited some account, I don't know which, but apparently it belonged to me, and credited me with £ 70, representing 2 months of free broadband service. I found out about it, protested, and told them I would never accept that. On the 02/08/2024, I rang 0345 172 0088, more than once, and impressed upon customer service, that this must not go ahead, or if it had gone ahead, customer service must reverse their accounting entry. Eventually customer service agreed that they would do so, and they assured me that they would do so. Obviously, looking at the above pictures, they have not done so. This compounds my original complaint.

(Also, there is at least one missing direct debit from my bank account.)

(Also, the way TalkTalk expresses itself on its bills, its very hard to tell whether it is debiting or crediting some internal TalkTalk account, or whether it is debiting or crediting one's bank account.)

Anyhow, I now ask customer service to immediately do so now. I.E. Reverse that £70 entry.

If your computer doesn't allow you to do that, then I would politely suggest, throw your computer away, and perhaps get another one.

Respectfully,

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Gliwmaeden2 — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 22:26:01 GMT

The minus sign means it's been credited, @Billx.

Looks like you still have credit of£35.00 in My Account. They have taken the £35.00 from the £70 and there's still £35.00 left to cover the bill.

They won't take money by DD while it's sitting as a credit in My Account as they always use up the credit first.

You have the option just to move it from My Account to your bank to resume the normal DD payment for the bill.

Talktalk doesn't send money directly to a customer's bank account - only to My Account, so you can choose to claim it back or put towards the bills.

So that explains how these things work, but you didn't want to accept the £70.00 as a resolution?

This is still a matter between yourself and the Case Managers.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Sun, 01 Sep 2024 23:51:31 GMT

Its amazing how you worked all that out so quickly, @Gliwmaeden2 . That explains it a bit.

I always have thought '-' represents debit or subtract. Perhaps they should say debit or credit, so we all know..

TalkTalk didn't subtract, it added. Still, one doesn't know whether they referring to an internal TalkTalk account or the bank account.

I thought this was sorted via customer service, because customer service assured me. In other words they had authority from the Case Managers.

Yes, off course I didn't accept it. I still don't. I made it very clear above and why I don't accept it.

Thanks,

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Gliwmaeden2 — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 00:09:11 GMT

Your ordinary credit card account would also show a minus in the statement when it's in credit / something is credited back, @Billx. You can't "owe" a negative number, they owe it to you.

When you are in debt that's shown as a positive amount, which is what you are more used to seeing in a bill, of course.

Takes a bit of getting the head around.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 00:21:53 GMT

No, @Gliwmaeden2

When you have a bank account, it is in the black or in credit or positive.

If you overdraw you're in the red or in debit or in debt or negative.

Also accounts are always shown from the customers point of view.

You've got it the wrong way round.

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 00:42:52 GMT

Ah, @Gliwmaeden2

You mentioned credit card account. Maybe the credit card people do it the opposite way. If they do, they better change it and do it properly.

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Gliwmaeden2 — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:41:31 GMT

Exactly, because it's credit it shows the other way around.

Go tell them then, if you don't like it. I did very carefully say credit card statements, NOT bank account statements!

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 10:10:06 GMT

@Gliwmaeden2

I don't use credit car.ds much. But it seems particularly stupid that credit card companies, who are financial companies like banks, are doing this.

It might seem that credit card companies are purposely showing their customers in the black, when their customers are in the red.

Also credit cards are no different from debit cards used by banks, they have exactly the same purpose, to reduce a customers credit balance, i.e. to move the customer more into the negative. And so credit cards have been misnamed from the beginning.

And thanks for explaining TalkTalk's accounting practice. But one would have to be a mind reader to work it out oneself.

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

AllyM — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 19:19:02 GMT

It's not TalkTalk's accounting practice @Billx . it's the way the whole global financial system works.

It is assumed that you understand that a bill is money you owe a company for goods and/or services supplied and it is simply shown as a positive value. Any negative numbers will be discounts, refunds, change given etc. I'm sure if you look at and bill you've received from any company, invoices for goods purchased, till receipts etc, you will see that they all use that terminology.

A bank account statement is not a good comparison to make as it simply lists transactions of money going in and out of your account - It is not a bill or invoice.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 20:29:08 GMT

Please look at the first picture showing what happened last month. It's absolute gibberish.

There are no dates. There's no 'Brought forward' or 'carried forward'. So there is no way I can add or subtract whatever figures are there, to come to a final sum. No final sum is shown. I was being kind calling it accounting practice.

In the second picture there are 2 entries -35 and -35 which should make a final sum of -70. What the f... is that supposed to be?

Do I owe £70 or am I owed £70? Neither.

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Gliwmaeden2 — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 22:30:16 GMT

@Billx, if you paid £35 on 9th July by DD, that presumably shows as deducted from your bank account?

It's the same day that the £70 was credited.

So 1st August bill was definitely taken 9th August from the £70.00.

You can double check that if no £35.00 taken from your bank account.

This month's bill: 1st September. Remaining £35.00 likely to be used up to cover the forthcoming month.

So October 1st: due around 9th, by DD.

Whichever dates the bill refers to, just crosschecking with your bank statement should surely confirm which dates were covered.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 22:47:51 GMT

@Gliwmaeden2

I understood you the first time you explained it to me. And yes, that made sense.

But what doesn't make sense is how it is presented by TalkTalk in the customers bill. No one can make any sense of it without somehow referring it to you. And to understand the somersaults TalkTalk goes through to arrive at the end result.

And I got a bit angry at @AllyM , because he was trying to teach me how things are in the world.

Thanks, You didn't have to reply again

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:16:22 GMT

@Gliwmaeden2

Forgive me. I'm not being argumentative. Just expanding a bit.

Your second description of what has happened and what will happen within Myaccount is 101% spot on. Thank you.

What is clear from your description is that TalkTalk creates a special 3rd account to put any customers credits in, IE The £70 went to its own account. So now there are 3 accounts involved. The main MyAccount, the special credits account and the customers Bank account.

That makes it mighty complex. When it's time to finalize at the end of the month, it somehow tries unsuccessfully to recombine its 2 internal accounts.

Anyway, the way things are dealt with in accounting, is to use the magic words 'Brought forward' and 'Carried forward'

One brings forward at the beginning of the month what was currently owed by the customer to the supplier, or what was currently owed by the supplier to the customer. Nowhere do these magic words appear in TalkTalk's bill.

The same applies at the end of the month, using 'Carried forward', so everyone knows, at the end, what is owed and to whom

I.E. There's no need to create a special credits account.

The other issue which came up before, the use of '-' and '+', can be avoided by using the other magic words, 'DR' and 'CR'

Thank you for your attention.

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:16:50 GMT

I present a picture from my current bill.

So, there is in fact, a mention of 'Brought forward'. (I got that wrong, just above)

But what is labelled as 'Brought forward' is in fact the 'Carry Forward'

And the 'Brought forward' itself, which was £70, is not mentioned. Go figure

(And I got it wrong, because this is from the online MyAccount, whereas my previous statement was from my downloaded bill. So even the 2 forms of the bill do not agree with each other.)

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Gliwmaeden2 — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 17:12:23 GMT

The balance after the last bill was paid was £35.00 in credit, still in the tank.

That previous bill was £35.

No payment was made by you because it was covered by £35.00 from the £70.00.

Total due this time: £0.00 because covered by the remainder of the credit.

£70.00 can't be mentioned again because it's been whittled away. It was not in a "separate account" @Billx, just put towards the bills in My Account.

So the current remainder due stands at £0.00.

Normal DD resumes next month.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:49:17 GMT

Anyway, we have driven far, far away from the original purpose of this post.

Which was, to ask customer service to immediately reverse that £70 gift entry.

On the 02/08/2024, I did ask them to do that. And they assured me they would.

So, this post was to re-ask them, to do just that.

So, is there anyone there from Customer Service, that could oblige me?

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

ferguson — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:55:11 GMT

So you want the £70 credit previously given to be removed, is that right? Just to be clear, that means you will now have to pay that back i.e. your bill will be £70 in debit.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 17:06:11 GMT

That's exactly what I'm asking for. But this is not a current request. It is an old request, which has not been carried out.

No, the bill will NOT be in £70 debit. Because there is a direct debit authority, for TalkTalk to take as much as they want, within reason.

Bill

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

ferguson — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 17:09:11 GMT

OK, I will alert the support team again to respond to this. Just to be clear, if they remove a previous credit, then you will have to make up that shortfall.

Re: Ignored again by TalkTalk

Billx — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 17:19:28 GMT

Off course, via the direct debit.

As I said, this an old request, not a new one.

Bill