topic Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign in Fibre

Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assigned)

Shandy — Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:27:50 GMT

I was a long-time, out-of-contract TT BB customer, overpaying for a legacy non-fibre service. Having initiated a switch to another provider I responded to an approach from TT Loyalty to go back into contract with them. We agreed a deal based on an upgrade to Fibre65, with landline, retained landline number, and a few trimmings.

Some days later I was assured by email from TT that no new router would be required at my premises. I therefore just waited, changing absolutely nothing at the premises. On the day of the upgrade I received emails stating that the agreed service changes had been implemented.

What actually happened was that internet connection speeds at my premises remained about the same, and the landline became inoperative. Things have remained like that for a week.

During that time I have initiated three on-line connection “tests” via the TT website. Every time, on-screen feedback has declared that there was a fault (although “it” was given a new number with each “test”), and that it was being attended to.

Eventually, I had to face TT Customer Service. The conversation with the TT agent was long and difficult due to very poor sound quality, awful background noise (shouting, etc.) and line delay. One or two important things emerged:

Administratively, at least, I am a Fibre65 customer, although my download speeds of around 10mbps max suggest that this is not the case, operationally speaking.

The TT agent tested my landline, and found it to be operational, but assigned to someone other than me. My phone remains dead.

The landline number in question has been associated with these premises for decades, it's used for private an professional purposes, and is still shown as the number on my TT Account. As stated, retention of this number was part of the deal agreed with TT Loyalty.

I believe that TT have mishandled the switch-over of my service to Fibre65, and in particular have erroneously allowed my long-held landline number to be reassigned; or have even reassigned it themselves.

I am seeking:
1) Clarity on what has actually happened;
2) Reassurance that my landline number will be restored once network/connection issues are resolved;
3) Reassurance that TalkTalk will address the loss of telephone service, and inconvenience caused by future unwanted telephone traffic or other issues associated with the user who has temporarily had use of my landline number.

I’d be happy to hear from any TT agents on this forum with experience in any of the above issues.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

ferguson — Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:49:48 GMT

This looks like a bit of a mess. Are you getting no dialtone on your landline at all? The support team here will of course be happy to look into this for you, but bear in mind that they won't be back online until Monday.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Shandy — Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:31:43 GMT

Thanks for your reply, ferguson. Your first sentence frames my thoughts exactly.

Firstly, I'm never sure how much to say on this forum, because posts seem accessible to any TT user who has signed up, and some who might be employees of TT. Because there is no assurance of confidentiality I don't use actual names and account details. I assume that genuine TT agents have ways of confirming that I am real, my account is real, the events in my post are actual and ongoing...

As anyone might infer from my post, I am particularly concerned about the ramifications around the long-held landline number. To add some detail: it has been associated with this address for over 50 years. It interconnects numerous members of two families, some of them elderly and requiring frequent contact, and is the main number shared with medical practitioners looking after the health of various family members. The number is reproduced on professional stationary, etc. and is known to a network of colleagues and partners, garnered over decades.

According to my conversation with TT Customer Service an engineer will address the issues I've outlined on Tuesday 14 March.

However, I was not very clear about why an engineer's visit may be necessary. The loss of landline connection, in particular, has nothing to do with anything changed at the premises. I can use a mobile, right now, to call "my" landline number (the number on my TT account): someone answers. It's obvious that TT have reassigned the number, or allowed it to be reassigned, in error, at a part of the network distant from these premises.

My talk with Customer Services left me far from reassured that TalkTalk takes responsibility for the fact that the telephone number in question has in fact been reassigned to another line by them, and that this is a very serious matter.

I am posting here just in case it finds a TT agent who can expedite resolution of the issues described, and/or reassure me that the "mess", as you (ferguson) put it, will be resolved.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

AllyM — Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:11:42 GMT

@Shandy ,

This is a public forum, so whatever you post on a topic in the forum is able to be seen by anyone on the internet. The information you put in the personal details section in the settings of your forum profile however can only be seen by TalkTalk staff. All they should need is your name and landline number and/or account number. I assume you have put those details in there.

If you log into the router admin page and go to the connection stats you should be able to see whether it is still connected to full copper (ADSL) or Fibre65 FTTC (VDSL) service.

You say that TalkTalk has "reassigned" the number. Are you saying that the person who answers when you ring the number believes that it is now their number or do they think that it's a different number they should have? It's probably just as likely that an Openreach engineer has messed up and crossed some wires when attempting to switch your line over to the fibre cabinet, and so would require another Openreach engineer to investigate and correct. The other person may well be getting your Fibre65 service.

Anyway, as @ferguson advises, staff should be back after the weekend and will hopefully be able to look into what is going on.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Shandy — Sat, 11 Mar 2023 16:51:02 GMT

Thanks for your response, AllyM.

I have been monitoring the router. I think it was probably moved to VDSL on the day of the switch-over, but for about a week down speed was only ever around 7-8mbps. Today, though, it's suddenly 38mbps... maybe something is happening at last.

Hopefully my phone line issues are the result of a relatively simple mistake, as you suggest, and will be corrected next week.

I'm aware of the public nature of posts here. I'm less clear about whether anyone reading and/or responding is a TT employee with discretion act on anything. I can't count the number of times I've been sent here by internal TT "help" links to "talk to a member of the team" even though there's no clear way to do that once you get here.

Notwithstanding the opacity of the forum's role, on a couple of occasions things have been fixed for me after I've moaned here. Nothing is ever really explained... but that's probably too much to ask.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

ferguson — Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:18:57 GMT

As I mentioned earlier, the support team won't be back online until Monday. You will know them by the fact that their usernames end with -TalkTalk and have Support Team below that. This is all on the Getting Started page.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Shandy — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 18:00:19 GMT

UPDATE: Sunday 12 March - FAO TalkTalk team members able to liase with OpenReach

- The down speed of 38mbps mentioned in my post yesterday was a brief burst. It's back to 9-10 mbps now.

- Landline remains disconnected/unresponsive.

I've been asked to confirm by text that I need an engineer's visit, but the method of communication seems to allow only one-word answers. I can only say:

I do think the attention of an engineer is required; but not necessarily a visit to my premises.

I can't answer any more definitively because I'm not equipped to diagnose the fault/s. However, given that they all occurred concurrently with the supposed switch to Fibre65 on 2/3 March, at which juncture nothing was changed at my premises, my guess is that the faults are due to physical misconnections made at that time, maybe at an 'exchange' or street cabinet (I'm not sure what the infrastructure consists of).

Finally, to recap: a TT Customer Services agent has actually called my landline number (10 March) and heard the call answered by someone else, at premises other than my own. It is therefore clear that there is a phone mis-connection, at least, at a node in the network supposed to connect onwards to my premises.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 09:35:50 GMT

Morning,

I'm sorry to hear this. I can see that an engineer visit has been arranged. Have you been in contact with our faults team?

Thanks

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Shandy — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:07:05 GMT

I notice that no acknowledgement has been made that the loss of service has to do with the switch to Fibre65 on 2/3 March. Can anyone at TT say why an engineer visit to my premises is an appropriate response to those events?

I see no straightforward way to contact a "faults team". Whoever they are, it would be seem appropriate that they should get in touch with me, since my current issues with TT services were first logged via TT online form on 3 March; then twice again by online form; once by phone; and finally here, on this forum. TT have a mobile number at which I can be reached.

All the information I have to offer at my end is provided in my posts in this thread.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Anonymous — Tue, 14 Mar 2023 07:07:48 GMT

Morning,

When the line tests are clear then the only option we have is to arrange an engineer visit to the property. We can only arrange an external line engineer when a specific line fault has been detected on the line.

Thanks

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Shandy — Tue, 14 Mar 2023 11:19:07 GMT

Problems solved by BT OpenReach engineer.

As experience seemed to indicate, all my recent issues stemmed from a physical mis-connection at the street cabinet serving my premises. The engineer visit was necessary in order to diagnose the issue, then establish a test signal between the premises and the cabinet in order to carry out a fix.

The excellent BT OpenReach engineer reported:

1) Internet speeds at my master socket were very good, indicating that the BB line had most likely been switched to Fibre; but

2) The phone line had been connected to an incorrect block in the cabinet, routing the phone signal to another physical location. This anomolous phone connection probably counted as a fault to the TT monitoring systems, which responded by restricting internet speeds to around 8mbps.

All this chimes perfectly with my experience since 2 March, the day of the switch to Fibre65.

The BT OpenReach engineer corrected the phone-line connection at the cabinet.

After 10 days poor BB with no phone (pointlessly worrying about the status of the long-held phone number) I now have a landline again, and BB speeds are where they should be at around 50mbps.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Chris-TalkTalk — Tue, 14 Mar 2023 11:46:10 GMT

Hi Shandy,

Thanks for the update. I'm really sorry for any inconvenience caused by this issue but glad to hear it's now resolved and your service is up and running

Chris

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

AllyM — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 19:33:53 GMT

A lot of praise there for the "excellent" Openreach engineer who fixed the issue, but don't forget that it was clearly a much less than excellent Openreach engineer who caused it in the first place, despite your insistence that "It's obvious that TT have reassigned the number, or allowed it to be reassigned, in error"

I've been a TalkTalk customer long enough to know that they are far from perfect, but not everything that goes wrong is necessarily their fault.

Re: Mishandled switch to Fibre65: speeds unchanged; land-line inoperative (no. erroneously re-assign

Shandy — Fri, 17 Mar 2023 17:49:24 GMT

1) "A lot of praise"? I was merely acknowledging an instance of good practice encountered along the way to resolving my BB/phone issues.

2) Here's more: the OpenReach engineer seemed well-trained, and approached the problems promptly and intelligently. They were efficient, polite, communicative. They took responsibility. They explained to me what they were doing as they were doing it. They checked all aspects of my line/connection before leaving.

3) My own assessment of my issues could only be based on what TT had told me up to the given juncture (the customer is not allowed to communicate directly with the true source of the services/issues, OpenReach). Based on TT's limited info, the loss of phone line seemed potentially serious, to me. I was alarmed. You (AllyM) suggested on this forum that the issue was likely a simple mis-connection, but you did not declare any particular affiliation or expertise. Up to the point of my posting on this forum, TT had not explained things fully enough to reassure me.

4) TT customers are restricted in their appeals for help because their relationship is with a vendor of services whose delivery is dependent on the expertise of a third party (Open Reach). Even if the customer "knows" that OpenReach may have caused and can probably resolve their service issues, they are unable to communicate directly with them, having instead to enter the vortex of TT Customer Services. TT and OpenReach execs probably call this 'synergy'. From my (customer) perspective, it's yet more administrative clutter, arising from the over-zealous marketisation of all human affairs.

5) To date, neither TT nor OpenReach have officially explained what happened. The TT bot has nevertheless auto-apologised and claimed that "their" engineer has fixed something.

Bad Fibre65 upgrade experience; worsening service; billing issues.

Shandy — Sun, 02 Apr 2023 17:30:02 GMT

My bad upgrade experience is described fully in my previous thread initiated 10 March 2023:

To recap: after a supposed upgrade to Fibre65 on 2 March 2023 I was left without a landline and with only basic internet connection for around 12 days. An OpenReach engineer finally fixed the issue as follows:

14 March
I stayed in the room with the OpenReach engineer throughout his work, and he reported the results of various tests to me directly as they were carried out. He found that the physical connection and signal to the premises master socket were 'excellent', but it seemed that the phone line was probably mis-connected at a street cabinet.

A visit to the relevant street cabinet confirmed the engineer’s view. The connection to my premises was duly re-assigned to the correct terminal in the cabinet. On the engineer’s return to premises the landline was immediately restored and a BB download speed of 50+ mbps was attained with the existing Super Router.

The engineer stated that the mis-connected landline had likely been interpreted as a fault ‘by TT’s systems’ and as a result of that BB speeds would have been restricted.

Finally, although there was ’nothing wrong’ with my existing telecoms master socket (and it definitely was not the cause of the broadband and landline fault), it was an old ‘BT’ type, and the engineer thought it advisable to replace it with a newer socket, with integral splitter for broadband and landline.

In summary:

First 12 days of my Fibre65 contract (from 2 March):
- No landline
- Restricted BB speeds
- No action from TT until a long call to Customer Services, despite faults showing as “logged” multiple times according to TT’s own customer-facing systems.

Service following engineer visit (14 March):
Service is good for the first 1-2 weeks. By the third week, internet connection has begun to drop out randomly, causing the router to reboot when connection is restored. This usually happens late afternoon to evening, meaning that any internet-reliant processes left running overnight are no longer reliable.

Repeated router checks from the third week (post-engineer) shows a steadily dropping download speed. E.g. on 2 April the router shows:
Upstream line rate (kbit/s): 3194
Downstream line rate (kbit/s): 22399
This is below the minimum guaranteed download speed of 27.2mbps.

Recent bills:

In my latest bill (1-30 April) I have been charge 65.00 for the engineer's visit of 14 March. Before I agreed to the visit it was made clear by a TT Customer Services agent that I would only have to pay for it ‘if the fault is due to any equipment on the premises damaged or misused by the customer’. (It was not).

I do not believe I should be charged for an engineer’s visit that found no fault with equipment at my premises, and which showed that the fault requiring attention was due to an engineering error at a street cabinet dating back to 2 March.

Further:

I experienced 11-12 days without a landline due to the engineering error of 2 March. This loss of an essential service has not yet been referred to by TalkTalk.

Around 2 weeks after an engineer corrected my upgrade mis-connection, download speeds have fallen below the minimum guaranteed for Fibre65, at least from 2 April, and possibly before that.

My internet connection is randomly breaking and re-establishing, sometimes several times in a 24 hour period, usually in the evening.

I would like my current connection and download speed issues to be addressed.

I believe all the circumstances referred to in this post should be reflected in the charges made and compensations given by TalkTalk via the normal billing process.

Re: Bad Fibre65 upgrade experience; worsening service; billing issues.

ferguson — Sun, 02 Apr 2023 17:34:09 GMT

I have merged your latest topic with your previous one for the benefit of continuity for the support team. They will respond again as soon as they can can when they are back online from Monday.

Re: Bad Fibre65 upgrade experience; worsening service; billing issues.

Gliwmaeden2 — Sun, 02 Apr 2023 20:01:42 GMT

The automatic compensation can take a full month to show after the resolution of a fault, @Shandy.

Details in this article:

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/About-your-auto-compensation-credit/ta-p/2326583

Re: Bad Fibre65 upgrade experience; worsening service; billing issues.

Chris-TalkTalk — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 06:29:02 GMT

Hi Shandy,

I can see that Gliwmaeden2 has pointed you to the auto compensation link. Line test is picking up a potential problem and showing a lot of retrains. Are you experiencing any problems with your telephone service, is there a dial tone? Is there any noise on the line?

Chris

Re: Bad Fibre65 upgrade experience; worsening service; billing issues.

Shandy — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 13:34:06 GMT

Hi Chris,

My landline seems fine, but that could just be because I'm not using it when the connection goes down.

Since noticing the breaks in internet connection I have been checking in to the router daily, as admin. Breaks are frequent now: the last about 4hrs ago. Download speed now seems to be consistently around 22mbps.

It's good to know there's a protocol for compensation. However, if it is 'automatic' why are we urged to attend to it ourselves? Why cannot TalkTalk issue automatic notifications to let the customer know that a diminution in service has been logged, and has or has not reached the threshold to trigger compensation? That would be a useful courtesy, and an improvement in service.

Finally, can you tell me what caused the fault that affected my service from 2 to 14 March (the first 2 weeks of my Fibre65 contract), please?

Re: Bad Fibre65 upgrade experience; worsening service; billing issues.

Chris-TalkTalk — Tue, 04 Apr 2023 06:35:05 GMT

Hi Shandy,

Is your router currently connected to your test socket? - Your guide to main phone sockets - TalkTalk Help & Support

I've sent you a PM to confirm some details

Chris