topic Re: Where did my router go? in Full Fibre

Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:28:36 GMT

In a nutshell this is an internet connectivity problem because my
Windows devices cannot see the router, but I do not think this is a
'range/signal strength' issue.

Tuesday evening 12th Dec UK time. Connect to internet as usual, no
connectivity issues. Shutdown overnight and reboot Wednesday
morning. No intenret connection - Wifi adapter clearly not
connected (no lights visible)

Windows 10 Desktop PC - connects wirelessly to Sagecom FAST router
via Asus USB-AC56 Dual Band 802.11ac WiFi adapter. This has an
associated WLAN manager to manage connections and is my first port
of call when I have conectivity issues. On starting the app I see
that unusually it displays "Radio Off". I switch Radio On and
select the router SSID from list but note that unusually it has
only 2 bar signal strength (usually 4 bars). It clearly has problems connectng
because it is slow, and then unusually asks for the device
password. I supply this - it is displayed correctly - but it is
not recognised. I go back to the list of available connections in
the manager and see that my router is no longer listed.

I try using the Windows Control Panel - it shows Adapter is 'On' but
list of available networks does not include my SSID. I also have
WiFiInfoView left over from when I tried to optimise the system
several months ago. It does not show the SSID either. Tried
rebooting both the router and the PC but no change.

I also note that my Windows 7 laptop has the same issue - different
WiFi adapter but same end result and the SSID is not shown in
'NetSpot'.

Stupidly, both my Android tablet andmy wife's iPad and the iPhones
seem to have a normal WiFi connection to the same router.

I try to contact TT support team, but agents are busy and I don't
have time to wait around for them. I try again Thursday morning and
sucessfully engage in an on-line chat with the team via my Android
tablet. Outcome is that broadband service seems to be OK and I
have a device issue ???.

Along the way during testing we discover two things:
1. If I connect the laptop to the router with an ethernet cable the
router is detected automatcially and an internet connection is
established.
2. After pressing the WPS button, there was no change to the
connectivity issues, but on the desktop PC I noticed that my router
SSID was displayed in WiFiInfoView, and that immediately above the
listing was an unnamed connction (i.e. no SSID shown) at a very
similar MAC addresses (only the last two digits were different,
**-**-**-2B and 2C). However, Windows still didn't list my router
as an available connection.

So I am now scratching my head as to what to try next. Anyone got
any good ideas?

Re: Where did my router go?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 07:26:19 GMT

Morning,

@KeithFrench - Would you be able to offer any advice on this?

Thanks

Michelle

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 08:32:04 GMT

Hi @Anonymous @VicF47

There is a lot to read through in the opening post. I will hopefully be able to deal with this later this morning.

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:43:45 GMT

Hi @VicF47

There could be several issues here, but essentially it points to the WiFi Adapter in the PC or Windows in one way or another. This could be:-

A WiFi interference problem that only affects the location where your PC is.
The USB adapter is not in a good location on the PC.
By default Windows Power Management can turn the adapter off when it wants to. Personally, I would not use any utility that comes with a WiFi adapter, as Windows can & does handle it all OK. If there was a bug in such a utility that might be causing issues (I am not saying that there is or that this ASUS utility is no good).

Moving forward:-

Please can you describe where the PC is located within your property with respect to the router?
Where on the PC is this USB WiFi adapter connected to the PC & is it a tower case or what?
Which WiFi band are the iPhones connected to & which does the PC connect to when it can?

Re: Where did my router go?

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:44:41 GMT

Thanks @KeithFrench 🙂

Michelle

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:42:58 GMT

Many thanks for your responses Keith & Michelle. I will get back to you, Keith, later today. I am going to be busy with other things this afternoon.

Suffice to say for now that you helped optimise my set-up several months ago: see "Device MAC ID" (Feb 2023) & "Does the right hand know what the left hand is doing?" (Feb 2023) and nothing has been deliberately changed since then, either phyisically in terms of location, or in terms programs/devices, but I will answer your specific questions later.

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:47:52 GMT

Hi @VicF47

I thought that your username looked familiar. Whenever you get the time to reply will be fine.

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:10:31 GMT

Hi Keith,
Good to chat with you again. In the 10 months or so since you helped me optimise my set-up everything has been OK. I know my kit is now 10 or 12 years old, has poor performance and really needs updating, but I have not had any connectivity issues and as far as I am aware my Broadband signal has been as good as it gets for the Fibre 65 package that I have - until a couple of days ago. (However, I notice from the TT suppot page that my desktop PC is identifed as "sometimes struggles to connect to WiFi". and a network extender is suggested. I did try this but it did not make any difference at the time and maybe its time to revisit this.)

So to answer your questions:

1. As we have discussed previously my set-up is far from text book ideal. I live in a 1930's typical bay fronted semi that has been
extended by demolishing the old 'lean-to' garage and replacing it with what is now an integral garage with additional first floor
rooms above.

The router is on the ground floor in the entrance hallway at the foot of the stairs close to the front door and adjacent to the telephone master socket and ONT box.

The desktop PC is located in my office in one of the first floor rooms above the garage and on the wrong side of what was the 9 inch thick solid brick external wall, now an internal wall pierced by a doorway to connect the office with the stairs.

2. USB WiFi adaptor sits on top of the PC 'mini-tower' The PC is a Zoostorm Compact format - 190 x 230 x 75 sitting on its short edge.
The adaptor has an adjustable anntena the top of which is currently set vertically and the tip is 300 above the top of the PC. This means that the tip of the anntena is about 3.5m above the router and 4.6m in the 'x' direction (along the face of the 9 inch wall) and 2.1m in the 'y' direction (at right angle to the wall, into the office). The Adaptor USB cable is plugged into the bank of USB sockets on the back of the PC.

3. I can't quite remeber how to find this information, I need to delve into my notes from the last time we spoke when I was able to interrogate the router and I will get back to you on this point.

Whist I accept that there may well be limitations as far as the desktop PC is concerned I am not convinced that this neccessarily has a bearing on the current problem . I have exactly the same issue with my laptop, which by design is portable, so I can get that very close to the router. I am using that device for this post, but I am connected to the router by an Ethernet cable because as soon as I remove the cable not only do I loose internet connection, but the router SSID disappears from the list of available connections. As soon as I plug the cable back in it takes a moment of two to identify, then automatically connects to the router, displaying the SSID.

I will sign off now to find the answers to question 3.

Regards,

Vic French

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 21:50:51 GMT

Hi Keith,

Re: Question 3 - I am not sure I can answer this.

I have looked back at my notes from February and they are not comprehensive enough. I have forgotten how I did some of the things I noted, e.g. vhanging the channel for the router, However, when we had finished the set up I have noted that everything was on the 5GHz band, but now when I log in to the router it is telling me that the only wireless connection is to the printer on the 2.4GHz band. It reports that there are no connected devices on either the 2.4 GHz band or the 5 GHz band. I have tried making sure that my iPhone is active by logging in to the TT web site, but when I click refresh in the router page it doesn't show the iPhone connection. The devices are listed in the TT 'My Devices' page.

For reference the laptop uses a Netgear adaptor that is set to 802.11 ac with no power management options enabled and the Asus adaptor is set to 802.11 a/n/ac again with no power management options selected.

Does this help?

Regards, Vic

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 22:21:00 GMT

Hi Vic,

It is all coming back to me, the garage & the office above, not to mention of course your surname!

I'll read through everything & hopefully come back to you tomorrow now.

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 10:27:40 GMT

Good Morning Keith, I don't know why it did not occur to me last night, but this morning I logged in to the router from my Android tablet expecting to see it listed against either the 2.4 or 5 GHz band, but suprise, suprise, although I logged in successfully and could interrogate the router and navigate throgh the pages, the tablet connection was not shown. Just as last night it said there were no connected devices and only showed the printer on the 2.4GHz band.

Don't know if this adds anything to the picture?

Regards, Vic

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 11:01:32 GMT

Hi @VicF47

I am guessing that from our previous diagnostics, I got you to use a WiFi analyser to get me screenshots of the state of the WiFi network? If so please can you get me a fresh set done on the PC. Then PM them to me to preserve your privacy, do not include them on this open forum. If you can't remember how to do this, or we never did it before, let me know & I'll send you my guide on this.

Another assumption is that you have either the Sagemcom 5364 or 5464 router, or was it the Eero?

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 19:44:01 GMT

Hi Keith,

thanks for your response. Yes I did send some screen shot and no, I can't remeber how I did it. But it is NO LONGER NECESSARY!

I have been thinking about the missing router problem on and off all day while doing other things. It occured to me that if there was an issue with the 5GHz band then the desktop PC should connect to the 2.4GHz band because the adaptor is set to 802.11 a/n/ac, but it probably can't becaue it is out range for the reasons I have elaborated. However, the laptop WiFi adaptor is set to 802.11 ac and so wouldn't attempt to connect to the 2.4GHz band if there were an issue with the 5 GHz band.

So when I got back home I quickly started up the laptop and change the adapter setting to 802.11 a/n/ac and lo and behold it coneected. Suspiciously a little too quickly, so I set the adaptor back to 802.11ac and the internet connection was maintained!!!

I then went upstairs to fire up the desktop and sure enough without me doing anything it found the router and connected to internet. The WLan Manager says it is connecting via Channel 132 with is what the router's 5 GHz band is set to (actually set to AUTO, but currently on channel 132)

So, whatever the problem was it seems to have resolved itself..

I will obviously keep an eye on things over the next few days and if neccessary I will get back to you.

If you think a post mortem would be helpful then let me know, I would be happy to go along with that. In the meantime I will look up your notes to refresh my memory on what we did last time to get the screen shots . I think I must have used the laptop for that because I can't see how to do it in WiFiInfoView and I don't have NetSpot installed on the desktop, but I will look again at your notes.

Bye for now. If you don't think it worth pursuing any further then let me wish you a Happy Christmas

Regards,

Vic

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:00:34 GMT

Hi @VicF47

I know that you have had problems with WiFi reception for some time now in places around your property & can't use a WiFi extender, because of different electrical ring circuits. In case the problems re-occur, please can you just confirm exactly which router you have?

Re: Where did my router go?

Gliwmaeden2 — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:25:07 GMT

@KeithFrench, there's mention of the Sagemcom FAST in the first post.

@VicF47, is this the traditional model, or does it have a slot for the phone line on it?

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:50:51 GMT

Thanks @Gliwmaeden2 for that. I am tied up with so many threads at the moment & all are wifi related & very similar, so easy to miss some basics.

Re: Where did my router go?

KeithFrench — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 11:10:32 GMT

Hi @Anonymous

I have been doing some diagnostics with this customer for some time and all results are very inconclusive and I can only think that this is a pure signal strength issue with his router not being able to reliably cover the whole property. I think he would therefore benefit from the Sagemcom FAST 266 WiFi booster.

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:29:12 GMT

Hi Keith,

Yes the router is the Sagecom FAST 5364. I believe this is the traditional model - I am not sure what @Gliwmaeden2 means by a slot for the phone line. All the sockets on the router are traditional "Ethernet" size, there is not a smaller one for the phone. On the other hand there is a socket separate from the rest, coloured grey and labelled "Broadband". Not sure what that is for, but I seem to remember that before Full Fibre this was the incoming line from the telephone master socket. Currently my phone line is still on copper cable and looking at potential upgrades to my account, now that the inital contract has expired, is on my list of things to do to.

Re: Where did my router go?

Debbie-TalkTalk — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 11:31:30 GMT

Thanks @KeithFrench

@VicF47 Would you like me to send a WIFI booster to see how the connection compares?

Re: Where did my router go?

VicF47 — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:43:09 GMT

Yes Please, that would be very helpfull, but I understad from @KeithFrench that it needs to be the Sagemcom FAST 266 WiFi booster (or similar) because previous range extenders that work on Powerline technology do not work very well because the router and the location on the PC are on different electrical circuits.

Regards and TIA

Vic French