topic Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one? in Full Fibre

I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 06:25:07 GMT

I am on full fibre at 160 Mb/s. Mostly I'm OK with the speed, however I have suffered from frequent WiFi outages that were determined in another thread to be caused by frequent kernel panics, leading to router crashes and resets. A replacement router from TalkTalk did not fix the problem. (It only created new problems.) So in desperation, I opted to buy a router of my own. The router I chose is the very popular and very highly rated TP-Link AC1200 on Amazon. You can see this here:

http://tinyurl.com/yw7al8el

However, the most recent TalkTalk router I have also came with a separate white box, which also somewhat resembles a router, but with fewer LAN ports (it has only one I think). The TalkTalk router then connects to this to my fibre connection. I'm not 100% clear how it all works (although I would like to know). But my question is now that I have this new router, do I still need the router (not the white box, which I'm guessing is essential?) that has been supplied by TalkTalk? This router is a dual router/modem, but is it only the router part of the set-up that is being used in this case? Can I simply replace this with my own router?

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

Divsec — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 09:28:51 GMT

Hi @jebus1967 the only way to see is suck it and see. You have bought a router so you will need something between it and the incoming fibre. It could be you need the white box, it could be you need the box and the TT modem/router, or even all the above and your router.

It will be nigh on impossible to break anything just by trying to use it!

Whatever you do don't dispose of any TT kit.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

ferguson — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:17:45 GMT

@jebus1967

You say "Full Fibre," but do you mean FTTP, or G.fast? It would be good to establish whether the "white box" you mention is in an Optical Network terminal (ONT), or modem. Either way, presumably your TalkTalk router is currently connected via that, so you should essentially replicate that set up with your new unit.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

Gliwmaeden2 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 16:16:30 GMT

@jebus1967, a word of caution with third party equipment. Talktalk has no liability in these instances:

Paragraph 13.2.f: Talk has no responsibility for....

Check the Ts&Cs, linked at the foot of any TT page.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:53:52 GMT

I don't have a lot of choice. TT aren't offering any viable solutions.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 01:44:05 GMT

I have no idea. When I signed up, the deal was for 'full fibre'.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

Chris-TalkTalk — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 08:16:36 GMT

Hi jebus1967,

It looks as though you are on the G.Fast service, does the white box say Openreach on it?

Chris

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:41:19 GMT

Yes it does.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

Chris-TalkTalk — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:44:34 GMT

OK thanks. The white box will be the G.fast modem, you'll need to connect the new router to the G.fast modem

Chris

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 23:04:20 GMT

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work that way. If I try a direct connection to the G.fast modem by connecting the LAN cable from this to the WAN (red) port of my new router, I get no internet. I tested this extensively. But if I run a non-WAN cable from the new router to a non-WAN port on the TalkTalk router I can get internet on the new router. The problem is I now have 3 boxes to facilitate my network needs. I hoped at the most to have only 2.

The problem I have been trying to solve, is that a TalkTalk firmware upgrade a few weeks ago, knocked several of my smart home IOT devices off the network, leading to a 3 week nightmare where I tried first to firefight and then ended up in even more of a muddle with all 46 of my smart home/IOT devices knocked off the network. So I wanted to isolate my IOT devices from the main network, so that in future firmware upgrades and even swapping out routers (except of course my most recent router) will have no effect on any of my connected devices.

But is there something I'm missing where maybe I could still ditch the TT router? (I don't mean throw it away, I mean put it in storage.)

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

ferguson — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 23:18:28 GMT

You may need to change some of your new router settings to get the connection from the modem, You will probably need to reach out directly to the device maker for help with that.

Which TalkTalk Hub do you have, specifically? I have the Sagemecom 5464 and it works just fine with excellent wireless coverage. At AC-2200 it is better specced than the AC-1200 of your TP-Link.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 23:40:20 GMT

I have the Sagemecom I believe. It isn't about being better specced. It's about isolating my IOT devices from the rest of the network, so that I don't need to go through the same nightmare again. I also don't like that TalkTalk appear to have dumbed down the advanced settings in this latest iteration of their router.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

ferguson — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 23:45:19 GMT

OK, I'm not sure what you mean by "isolating" your IOT devices and how you would achieve this by a change of router? For sure, the Sagemcom interface is a bit basic, but what is it you want, exactly?

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:59:14 GMT

Because as time progresses and technology changes, I occasionally get a new router, or a new ISP. This happened recently with the latest TT router. TT sent me this router in an effort to resolve my problems. But changing routers can lead to unforeseen problems, as it did on this occasion. So next time I change router or ISP, I just want it to be a case of swapping out the new router and having all my IOT devices just work. No issues. It's pretty simple really.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

bigkenny — Tue, 16 Jan 2024 18:53:11 GMT

If you get something for nothing as in a TT router with the package your on its not going to be as good as a bought in the shops router which will have better specs and have no items locked down as TT routers do.

Since I got my own router some years ago. I`ve never looked back I keep the TT router as a backup only. You get what you pay for and I would sooner have smooth internet connection with no problems than muck about with free hand outs.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

ferguson — Tue, 16 Jan 2024 19:03:13 GMT

@jebus1967

You still haven't said what problems? And you have hardly future-proofed yourself with that cheap router.

@bigkenny

Except in this case the router chosen is inferior in specs to the TalkTalk Hub.

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

ferguson — Tue, 16 Jan 2024 19:05:18 GMT

@jebus1967

Anyway, have you managed to get your new router up and running?

Re: I have bought a new router, do I still need the old one?

jebus1967 — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 06:56:27 GMT

The age, or relative specifications of the router are irrelevant. It serves a purpose, and that purpose is specific to me and meets my needs. Yes I got it working. But unfortunately not in any configuration without the TT router. I've configured hundreds of routers over the last 27 years. So it's fair to say I know what I'm doing. But since the settings on the TT router are so basic and are so tightly locked down, I can't figure out what settings in the TT router need to be matched in my new router. I don't like the idea of TT having full access to my router (and potentially my network too for that matter), or anyone else who might care to take a peek. So it's as much about securing my own privacy as it is about having full control over my own equipment - and having an easy life should I wish to change ISP's, (who may require me to also use their equipment), with regard to walling off my rather large collection of IOT/Smart Home devices from the wider network. It makes sense to me, although I have the impression that you somehow don't approve. Which is a little odd to be fair. 😛