on 12-04-2021 05:24 PM - last edited on 13-04-2021 02:29 PM by Gondola
Back at base - hit our Outlook's 'Send/Receive' and after that download I closed the program. I then went online to our webmail area on the TalkTalk servers to clean up the email copies there, as for the last few months they've tended to collect, not be removed as they previously used to be after downloading them to our computer. Later, opening up our InBox to check and to respond to some of those emails, I find our InBox EMPTY!? What's happened? We've never had that problem before, not with POP, and not apparently since following directions to change to IMAP. Is this a problem with IMAP? I don't need emails left to pile up on your servers... They used to clear after downloading, which hasn't been the case for the last few months...
What's happened? I visited the TalkTalk servers and pre-deleted junk mail before hitting the 'Send/Receive' on our Outlook back here with this laptop, no problems there. As they no longer clear from the server I later delete those from our space on the TalkTalk servers. Last night I decided to open the InBox on Outlook to respond to some of the emails I'd received over the last week or so, and it was empty, nothing!?
Even after downloading email no longer clears from the TalkTalk servers and needs to be manually deleted by me, but that shouldn't work back to what I've downloaded to Outlook back at this computer. That seems to be the case here, weirdly, as all email since Monday afternoon on the 29th of March has completely disappeared, is NOWHERE to be found...
This makes me quite nervous to even consider doing anything with email. What's up? There should not be such a connection between server and our Outlook that causes emails at both ends to just disappear...
on 13-04-2021 06:01 PM
Old news, and previous problems and confusions, yes, Freedom-2-Surf, alias f2s, and we were originally TalkTalk Business. There were recent confusions over all this, back and forth between Business and TalkTalk Home Broadband, hopefully eventually settled, at least until the current contract ends, and then we may be returning to Business.
Thanks for some clarity. I hadn't known that someone else was carrying the legacy emails. We've had our f2s email for a very long time. I'll try TTB to see if they've any answers to the recent weirdness, though you seem to have explained it well, at least as it is now behaving, and the problem with the disappearing email, if not the empty junk/deleted folders. We did have problems with email previously, which is why we followed the suggestion to delete POP3 and install IMAP. After doing that our email started working again. That, I believe, was a couple of months back. It was TTB that sorted that out, that helped.
Confusions have existed between the two halves, TTB who we were originally with, and TTHB.
Something weird has just happened, I can no longer access our f2s mail via Pipex. It shoes, but the button to connect seems to have been disabled. That access point was a little clearer and easier to use, more 'basic'. Have you done something to disable that? Interestingly, the 'deleted' folder is now working on the talktalkbusiness2 access, but no past history. I just tested it with a few deletions.
If I'm a little out of it, I'm suffering, not Covid-19, thought the symptoms synch - persistent coughing, wheezing, and sinus woes - some awful variant of what folks refer to as the 'common' cold. Is there really such a thing, there being a hell of a lot of variants of that ancient virus...
Keep well, keep sane, keep active - - -
on 13-04-2021 03:08 PM
netmail.pipex.net and webmail.talktalkbusiness2.net are for legacy TalkTalk Business (TTB) domain mail.
If you're still using f2s mail, for example, then that's not on the TalkTalk Mail platform. It's not a TalkTalk Consumer product even though you're a TalkTalk Consumer home broadband customer.
TalkTalk staff that support this Community don't have access to TTB systems or to the mail, including f2s, nildram and gotadsl domains that are hosted by TTB on the apm-Internet servers to know if there's a problem or indeed to offer a fix if there is. That's between you and TTB Support.
But everything you've indicated about POP3 and IMAP indicates that the apm-internet servers are working normally. Your fellow TTB legacy mail users have recently indicated they were having issues sending mail via email clients. So, if that is what has triggered your interest in a possible fault then you need to contact TTB Support.
So, just confirm that it is f2s or one of the legacy email domains mentioned that you're talking about so TT Staff here can refer you to a TTB contact if you don't get the help you need from TTB Support.
on 13-04-2021 02:53 PM
Your time and patience is appreciated, though the same can't be said for IMAP. It all sounds like information it would be good to have as one switches to IMAP, a user's manual. This synchronization between server and computer makes IMAP sound quite insecure, dodgy, an ideal back door for hackers... I can't say I understand why this problem has been late in arriving, as I made the switch some time ago... Why suddenly a week-and-a-half's worth of email would just suddenly go up in smoke? I'm not surprised, having a long history with software, and the Internet, back to the days of the ArpaNet and when Starbucks was a one shop wonder...
Technology back then could do no wrong, with any faults laid on the user rather than the hardware or software. Things have little changed, given the poor people who had to suffer the Post Office's dodgy software, the NHS, and beyond... Losing a week's worth of email is a right pain and worry, personal emails and business too... From what you've shared it seems I will have to keep carefully backing things up, moving them somewhere out of reach of the TalkTalk servers and IMAP...
on 13-04-2021 02:37 PM
That was as I'd suspected and was just about to send - - -
Our computer - IMAP folders =
Inbox (#) / Archive / Drafts / Sent / Spam / Trash (empty!)
TalkTalk Servers - 2 different accesses -
Inbox (#) / Archive / Drafts / Sent / Spam / Trash (empty!)
Inbox (#) / Sent / Spam / Deleted Items (empty!) / Archive
on 13-04-2021 01:53 PM
on 13-04-2021 01:44 PM
"With IMAP deleted mail messages are moved from the Inbox folder to the Trash folder. Messages in the online Trash are auto-deleted after 30 days." - no Trash folder is found!?
on 13-04-2021 01:29 PM
Curious!? I then did as I've suggested above, moving the archived emails back into our Inbox on the TalkTalk servers. I then, again, downloaded them to this laptop and then moved them into a different folder, with those emails no longer showing in our Inbox here but still showing on the TalkTalk servers. Still on the TalkTalk servers, I then decided to click over to 'Archive' and back, and they've disappeared, without me having to manually choose each one and delete them a page at a time, as I've had to do in the past.
In that past, which was another period of 'change', the one where copies of emails suddenly stopped clearing from the servers after download (POP3), when I'd do the clean up, deleting the copies of emails, pages worth, that did not affect anything back at base, unlike what I've just confirmed is the case now...
on 13-04-2021 01:27 PM
POP3's function to leave a copy on the server will mean the online Inbox still has the mail messages that an IMAP email client can download.
The IMAP email client will mirror the mail messages in the synchronised folders of the online mailbox.
It doesn't matter where you delete mail when using IMAP. Delete on an IMAP client or delete in the online mailbox and all connected IMAP clients will, when synchronising, mirror the online mailbox.
What you're reporting is normal.
With IMAP deleted mail messages are moved from the Inbox folder to the Trash folder. Messages in the online Trash are auto-deleted after 30 days.
If you wish to save mail messages then copy them to a local folder.
on 13-04-2021 01:01 PM
1. ) TalkTalk servers - moved wanted email temporarily into archive, clearing those from our Inbox on these servers. I've selected some of the usuals to delete and kept a few of those in the Inbox to download for this test...
2. ) Our computer/Outlook - clicked Send/Receive in Outlook to download selected test emails from the servers, and the usual window pops up to show the download happening and completing...
3. ) TalkTalk servers - after the download I deleted those same test emails from the servers, clearing those copies from that Inbox...
4. ) Our computer/Outlook - checking our Outlook Inbox... "POOF!" - now empty - ALL those downloaded emails have gone, despite having downloaded them. Despite the confirmed downloading, it seems that that if I then remove those copies from our Inbox on the TalkTalk servers - the same thing happens with our Outlook Inbox on this laptop...
THAT'S JUST NUTS! That's a connection/ability that shouldn't exist. After downloading I should be able to clear content/copies on our Inbox on the TalkTalk servers without it affecting content on the Inbox on this computer.
The option would to to copy those downloaded emails into a different but safe file, one the TalkTalk servers' connection can't screw around with. This is weird. Without the ability to clear the Inbox on the servers, and not have it impact our own Inbox on this computer, email would just keep building up on the servers side. Something here does not make sense...
on 13-04-2021 12:43 PM
Unfortunately, no, Gondola's suggestion doesn't add up. I removed POP a few months back when changing over to IMAP, and no, the email from that previous POP client did not go "POOF!" It is still present and accounted for and regularly accessed. The disappearing emails were all over the previous week and no such problem has existed before, not with POP, not with the IMAP transfer or since, until last this batch of approximately a week's worth of email.
I'm going to run a test, still worried about this oddity, using unwanted email, to see what happens. I'll let you know....
on 13-04-2021 08:04 AM
on 13-04-2021 07:05 AM
The standard advice to users of POP3 email clients and apps is to set them up to leave a copy of mail on the server and to save any wanted mail not on the server to a backup location before deciding to delete the email client or app. Deletion will remove the software and mail messages downloaded to that software.
So, yes, no smoke and they're all gone.
on 12-04-2021 06:12 PM
Download and delete from the Inbox is a default action of any POP3 mail connection unless set to leave a copy in the Inbox on the server. POP3 email clients can be set to auto-delete mail older than a set period or set to never delete.
An IMAP connection just mirrors what's in the mailbox synchronised folders. IMAP email clients can be set to auto-delete mail older than a set period or set to never delete.
Your description fits what would happen if you're running multiple devices with one set as a POP3 email client that's doing the download and delete which means when you connect an IMAP email client you find the Inbox empty.
Carefully inspect all devices that you use to connect to the mailbox. See which one is set as a POP3 email account. That'll be the one holding the messages in its Inbox.
But if it's not a device under your control that's doing the downloading and deleting then change your email password to lock out any unauthorised connections of devices or mail services like Gmail that work as a POP3 account and delete after downloading unless set not to delete.