cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | would you rather see results for 
Did you mean: 
Need help?

Talktalks interpretation of language and law

ANSWERED
Reply
40 REPLIES 40
Highlighted
Participant

Hey talktalk social media folks, would just like to offer up two statements for consideration, "void the contract and delete my details," and, "I am no longer a customer of talktalk."
Just curious how talktalk would interpret those?
As a statement of cancellation?
Or a statement of satisfaction not requiring of any reference to cancellation from talktalk and an instruction for talktalk to keep charging?

Any opinions from any others reading this?

Highlighted
Community Team - TT Staff

Hi ddownes100,

 

If you need assistance with anything could you please give a brief description of the issue and can you update your community profile to include your:

  • Name
  • Telephone number
  • Alternative contact number

We'll then look into this further. Please do not post this information on this thread Once you've updated your profile please post in your topic to confirm it's updated.

 

Thanks

Chris

 

Highlighted
Participant

No assistance needed, just a genuine and honest answer to my question.

 

A little context/hypothetical if ya need it, a customer raises a complaint, in their initial message they state you've not even come close to meeting your contractual obligations, and say that they want you to convince them not to cancel. It doesn't go well, you refuse to even entertain the idea of handling the complaint via email, seemingly in contradiction of the customer complaints code of practice, along the way they say, "void the contract and delete my details," and, "I am no longer a customer," among other things such as asking for instruction on returning property loaned to them as part of service arrangement.

Do you think this customer has informed you of their will to cancel?

If not...how not? lol

And what would your interpretation of the meaning of the statement be?

Highlighted
Community Star

Hi @ddownes100 

 

You want to end a service or contractual agreement outside of the 'change your mind' period, well you follow Terms & Conditions part 15 starting on page 7. 

 

Section 15.3 may apply where you've agreed to give notice of a failure to meet the contract and cooperate for up to 45 days with TalkTalk to put right any shortcomings.

 

You've made a complaint but don't appear to be willing for TalkTalk to do anything other than let you cancel. Saying you're no longer a customer doesn't void the contract.

 

But we haven't been party to everything that's happened or what the problem is only the 'snapshot' you've given here.  I would say, the best thing is to let the TalkTalk team here help you. Their experience is top-notch.

 

If you wish to let the TalkTalk team here help you then please do a quick check that your Community Profile includes in Personal Information (Click here) your name, current TalkTalk landline 'phone number and an alternate number (mobile recommended) and address with postcode (location). Then scroll down to Private notes to add details of the issue with any relevant other notes and finally save changes. TalkTalk's Community Team OCE will then locate your registered TalkTalk details and offer you help to get issues resolved in the quickest way possible.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Community Team - TT Staff

Hi ddownes100,

 

Is there anything that I can help with?

 

Thanks

 

Highlighted
Participant

@OCE_Michelle 

Yes you definitely could, would you simply provide an honest answer to the query I raise in my initial post..and my first reply..

 

@Gondola 

That's a lot of unnecessary, and ultimately incorrect assuming you've done there.

And whilst, "I am no longer a customer," wouldn't necessarily void a contract, d'ya think saying, "void the contract," might just do it? And really, even out of context, as a responsible business owner, I'd probably want to check with just the customer statement..given the context I'd be certain they wanted to cancel.

 

I was inside the cooling off period.

My original complaint (regarding the service issue) was closed two years ago, because I couldn't be reached by phone and they refused to handle the complaint via email, seemingly contrary to their customer complaints code of practice, my assumption being they were attempting to force me to speak to a retention agent in the hopes of me changing my mind about the cancellation.

 

My current complaint (regarding a £400 "debt") is about to go to deadlock, due to talktalks insistence that I did not cancel.

 

I haven't come here looking for help with the complaint, I simply want someone to explain what else could be meant..I just want an answer to my question, that's all.

It's pickling my brain that anyone could think, even out of context, that something else was meant..I'd just like a reasonable answer, what else could be meant?

 

...please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top..

Highlighted
Problem Solver

I'm pretty sure cancellation would need to be in writing (like most contracts) so whilst your intent to cancel would/ should have been noted you would still need to put something in writing.


You can't just say "I'm no longer a customer" and be done with it.

 

Fritz

Highlighted
Participant

@FritzCT 

Wel..thanks?

But no, the contract clearly states, phone, post, or email.

And I clearly stated, to talktalk, in my initial post, and in subsequent replies, that I stated, "I am no longer a customer," and, "void the contract and delete my details," and I think I made it pretty clear that those statements weren't in isolation.

 

But that's not really relevant in this.

 

I just want to know what else could be meant, whether in context or out, by the void and customer statements..

Any chance of someone, even someone who stans for talktalk, answering the question?

Why won't anyone just answer the question I've actually asked?

Highlighted
Problem Solver

You asked for opinions so I gave mine. Your statements indicate intent only so wouldn't result in the termination of your contract unless TT had agreed that they would terminate it. I assume they've never done so and unless they do then your a customer until the contract term expires. That's how contracts work.

 

If you want a definitive answer from TT that is specific to your account and situation then maybe it would be best to speak to their accounts dept rather than a community help forum?

 

Fritz

Highlighted
Participant

@FritzCT 

Yes, an opinion on the question I asked..and it would appear I finally, kinda, have one, my sincere thanks (that's actually genuine lol).

That my statements only indicate intent, rather than an actual declaration of cancellation..a bit of a stretch given the clear instruction, "void the contract and delete my details," but it's definitely a line talktalk could choose to take.

Though the rest of that first paragraph, that's not how contracts work, CC(ICAC) 2013, we've stronger rights as consumers than you might imagine, no matter what the contract states or what the terms and conditions include one can't be made to jump through some cancellation process hoops, informing is enough under the law.

Same with cancellation fees, doesn't matter what the contract states or what the terms and conditions include, an early cancellation fee must be fair and justified or it is not legally enforceable. (Regulations 29 and 32 iirc).

 

And as I've already mentioned, I'm not here looking for help with anything but an alternate meaning for those two statements, as talktalk have repeatedly ignored my request in that regard. You have provided an alternative, talktalk are telling me that those two statements are not a clear request to cancel, it could be that they feel they are statements of intent, not declarations of action.

 

Any other possibilities?

Highlighted
Community Team - TT Staff

Hi ddownes100

 

If you make a statement indicating that you would like to leave our service via Email, We would need to speak to you in order to confirm that the named account holder is requesting cancellation,  If we cannot the account would continue to be active and continue to generate charges. 

 

Hope that helps. 

Highlighted
Participant

@OCE_Arne 

Thanks for the reply, it's an interesting one..

Not only were talktalk willing to register a complaint, and share sensitive/protected account details, but not one representative has ever mentioned that before, not the half dozen or so I was passed between with the original complaint, nor the CEO complaints team member I'm dealing with at the moment, nor even the team leader they keep having to consult..and it does seem to contradict bits of my contract, the T'S and C's, and, ya know, bits of law. If they were willing to act, via email, on instruction regarding the account, and provide/confirm details covered by the DPA, and it's associated horde lol, why would a cancellation request require a phone call? Is it perhaps a transparent attempt at forcing people to speak to retention agents?

 

At the time I may have been willing to jump through some cancellation related hoops, but it was never mentioned. I mean, one of  the reps even confirmed I'd be getting a package to return the router..within 7-10 days I think it was (and no, it didn't ever arrive lmao). But they didn't think it was a valid or authorised cancellation request?

 

But, again, that's not really relevant here,  at the issue at heart here is the question I have repeatedly asked, and that has been repeatedly ignored, what did talktalk feel I meant by those two statements I am rather sick of repeating?

Although..your message would imply that talktalk were well aware they were a cancellation request, but one that did not match its own processes related to cancellation..that sounds..well, let's say questionable, under both the law and common decency.. especially given that nobody felt it necessary to inform me of this unnecessary hoop.

 

And hope all you like, no, that didn't help.

Highlighted
Problem Solver

You've had repeated opinions as to why TT probably interpreted it as an intent to terminate (by whatever means) and that it would subsequently need confirmation that it was a legimate request. 

 

Bottom line is that you seemed to fail to get any kind of confirmation from TT that your contract was determined (ALWAYS get it in writing). No one is saying that you didn't state you wanted to cancel but there needs to be agreement that you can terminate the contract and if so under what terms. TT will obviously follow their contract (whether just or not, that's for you to prove) so your other points are moot.

 

Like I said previously I think you would be better off speaking to their accounts dept rather than a community help forum.

 

Fritz

Highlighted
Participant

@FritzCT 

I've not had any opinions as to *why* talktalk interpreted it as an intent rather than a request, just someone stating it..oh wait, that was you lol.

And one individual did state that talktalk would subsequently need confirmation it was a legitimate request..notice how that person hasn't replied give the ridiculousness of that position in context.

 

I suppose you are correct in that, and only that lol, I did not receive explicit confirmation of the end of the agreement..I mean, the talktalk rep did tell me I'd be getting the returns package for the router..but you're correct, that's not an explicit confirmation of cancellation.

It's not actually in any way relevant of course, read CC (ICAC) 2013 part 3, specifically regulation 32 (3) (b), a clear statement is all that is required.

 

And yes, someone is saying I didn't state I wanted to cancel, talktalk are saying exactly that lol.

 

No, there doesn't need to be any agreement lol, read the laws relating to this before making firm statements, what have you based that on? A feeling? There can be a back and forth, but you don't need permission, at most you can receive an, "okay, you want to cancel? Fine, cancelled, pay us a fee, return our stuff." And as I mentioned in an earlier reply, contracts do not supersede the law, or T's and C's for that matter, does not matter what you agree to, it must be lawful, it must be fair.

 

And a moot point is exactly the opposite of what you seem to assume, I mean, I know the Americans tend to use it to mean something that's not worth discussing..but it does mean exactly the opposite lol.

 

And again, I don't need to speak to the accounts department, I'm waiting for talktalk to finalise the deadlock letter for my complaint.

I am here simply to get an answer to the question, if, "I am no longer a customer of talktalk," and, "void the contract and delete my details," are not clear statements according to talktalks interpretation of CC (ICAC) 2013 part 3 regulation 32 (3)(b)..then what do they mean?

...but every relevant response I've had seems to indicate talktalk are mistaken in the position they have taken, that my statements were clear, that it is simply that I did not follow 'correct' procedure..that seems to be your argument too..I hope I have disabused you of that notion, you can just tell them, that's the law.

 

 

Highlighted
Community Star

Hi ddownes100


You're dealing with the CEO's office that is solely dealing with your £400 debt, including unpaid contractual bills starting from 2 years ago, is what I understand from this thread and a remarkably similar one on broadband.co.uk.

 

Were you really within 20 days of order acceptance when you sent the email requesting TalkTalk to void the contract?  You claim you were within that first 20 days 'cooling off' period.

 

If not then this is why TalkTalk asked the account holder to contact them by 'phone. This is the normal security check to confirm Customer Service is dealing with the account holder and to make an agreement to either cancel the contract subject to agreeing any early termination fees due i.e. outside of 'cooling off' and or to give an opportunity to resolve the complaint within 45 days.

 

But you didn't either respond to TalkTalk to resolve the service complaint or reach an agreement on cancellation and fees payable.

 

If debt collectors are now involved I'm sure this is stressful. You need proper legal advice which is something we would not help you with. Citizens Advice will if you do not yet have a solicitor to advise you.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Participant

@Gondola 

I am.

 

I was.

 

They didn't, they, now, just claim that the statements are not clear cancellation requests.

 

There was nothing to respond to.

 

And my initial complaint of 2 years ago was closed, against my will, because I couldn't be reached by phone, and talktalk refused to deal with the complaint via email..or rather, their 'complaints manager' would not.

 

And I really do have an email chain that verifies everything I have said/typed lol.

 

Oh, I've got legal advice, as I think I mention in a previous message..but that could be on another chain on any one of at least a half dozen sites, the lawyer wants me to wait for the deadlock letter, head through CISAS, them get talktalk in court if I'm still not satisfied..which I definitely won't be, I want them to feel the sting from this.

 

 

But, again, again, again, lol, not relevent.

I just want someone to answer the question I keep asking, over and over again..I'm starting to think you talktalk stans are almost entirely ignoring it because there is no reasonable alternative meaning lol.

Highlighted
Community Star

Hi ddownes100 

 

Your case is that you provided adequate identification of the account holder in a written 'void my contract' "cancellation" email sent 2 years ago within 20 days of order acceptance so within the cooling off period in place at the time. 

 

We don't need to know anything more. You have legal representation. I suggest you follow your legal representative's advice.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Participant

@Gondola 

 

It is.

 

I know.

I am acting on my legal representatives advice.

 

And the stress you mentioned in your earlier comment, it was very present, and quite strong. But once is found all the 'receipts' and heard from my lawyer, and got my local MP and the office of the secretary of state for DCMS involved..it kinda ebbed away a bit, I'd be lying if I said there was none, but I don't feel like I've gone insane anymore lol.

 

But, again, again, again, again..probably a few more agains lol, I didn't come here for advice or discussion on any of that, I provided the additional information simply to answer questions and respond to comments.

 

I can here solely to get that question I keep asking, answered.

And I did that, because I keep trying to work it out..but I just can't..it's like a little cut in the mouth you can't stop irritating lol. Everytime I try to work out what they thought I meant, why none of their reps ever mentioned anything, why they simply ignored the comments, and why the CEO complaints team think they are not clear statements.....I just end up with a lowkey brain ache lol.

 

I was hoping someone could just answer the question for me, I don't understand why people keep taking the time to reply without bothering to address the question..do people get freebies or preferential treatment for their actions on this community?

 

Do you think those two statements I keep repeating are clear statements of a will to cancel that should trigger the cancellation process?

Highlighted
Community Star

Hi ddownes100 

 

Sorry that as a volunteer contributor to our Community members I don't offer law interpretation or mind reading for evidence. So either pay the debt collectors or let the arbitrators and or court decide the merit of your 2 year old case on the basis of presented evidence and let your legal representative guide you.

 

You say you effectively cancelled in writing within 20 days of order acceptance during that cooling off period at the time, 2 years ago. That's either going to be accepted as true or false. You will win or you will lose.

 

You say it's true. Good luck. I personally see no merit in continuing this topic.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Participant

@Gondola 

 

Then why do you keep replying?

 

And I love the passive aggression lol.

 

 

I'm just asking for an alternative interpretation of those two statements, if you don't have one to offer, please, feel free to stop offering your poorly formed opinions on something other than that which I asked.

 

 

 

Does anyone have an alternate meaning for those two statements? Please, I, quite genuinely, would love to have one provided.