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Upload speed poor, download speed excellent - until I upload anything

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49 REPLIES 49
paul0rimmer
Team Player

I've been with TalkTalk for about 6 months, on fibre broadband (FTTC). Initially I was getting about 23mbps down and about 6.5mbps up, which was great - I could upload without any noticeable adverse effects on simultaneous downloading. Then, about 2 months ago, suddenly I was only getting 2mbps up, and whenever I uploaded anything, downloading ground to a halt.

 

I reported it to TalkTalk, who have sent out no less than three Openreach engineers. Openreach have managed to increase the download speed (by replacing the cable between my home and the cabinet) to an incredible 36mbps, but my upload speed remains stuck at 2mbps, so again, as soon as I upload something, downloading grinds pretty much to a halt.

 

TalkTalk want to send yet another Openreach engineer out, but I've had enough of having to waste a day's holiday from work waiting for an engineer who - as happened last time - effectively shrugged his shoulders and said there's nothing he can do.

 

I've lodged a complaint with TalkTalk (by email) who have ignored it altogether. I'm ready to cancel and switch to another ISP, but before I do, can anyone offer any suggestions as to the cause and - better yet - the solution?

 

Thanks in advance.

Community Team

Hi,

 

I'm sorry to hear this and I'll take a look now. Just to confirm, which router are you currently using? (make and model) Have you ever tested with a different router?

 

Thanks

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Thanks for your reply.

 

I'm not at home at the moment so can't give you the make and model number of the router, but it's a TalkTalk hub that looks like this. It's the router that you provided me with when I joined.

 

I've not tried another router myself, but the Openreach engineers who have attended have all tried their own equipment plugged into my socket and got the same results.

 

Before you ask, we (the Openreach engineers and I myself) have tried the master socket/test socket, with the same results (ie, 2mbps upload).

 

The first Openreach engineer fitted a new socket inside the home, which has a built-in filter.

 

It's not the router that's at fault here, or the socket, or any of the equipment in my home - as confirmed more than once by Openreach's engineers. Nor is it the line between my home and the cabinet - again, as confirmed by Openreach's engineers.

 

Which - unless I'm missing something - means it's down to my broadband profile. I'm getting incredible download speeds, given how far I am from the exchange, but terrible upload speeds. To me that suggests it's something to do with my profile. I should be on the 40/10 line, given my tariff, but what if I'm not - what if I'm actually on the 40/2 line? That would be very consistent with the speeds I'm getting, wouldn't it? I know your screen will tell you that my tariff suggests I should be on 40/10 - and I think when I first joined you I was on 40/10, as I was getting 6.5mpbs up - but what if somehow I've been bumped onto 40/2?

 

If I'm definitely, positively, absolutely provably on the 40/10 line, then does the line need resetting/re-training/whatever-you-call-it? I'd have thought Openreach would have tried that on their many visits, but is it something you can do, from your end?

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Apologies if my tone is harsh, Michelle - and especially if you're a community member rather than TalkTalk staff and you're just trying to help a stranger - but I'm pretty exasperated by having to tell TalkTalk the same thing every time I contact them (and by the fact that they're not responded to my complaint at all).

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Update: TalkTalk have just responded (by phone and email, and text message) to acknowledge my complaint. I'd much prefer to deal by these message boards to try to get the technical fault resolved, so hopefully we can continue to do that without me having to respond to the phone call and/or email while I'm at work.

Community Team

Hi,

 

Thanks for the additional information. I've asked our Network Team to take a look and I'll let you know as soon as I receive an update back. If you don't hear back by the end of today then please can you bump your thread and we can re-check for an update for you.

 

Thanks

 

Community Team

Hi,

 

Our Network Team have advised that the next step will be arrange a BTOR engineer visit so I'm just sending you a Personal Message to confirm some details.

 

Please do not post any personal information on the Community, reply via Personal Message (PM) only.

 

Thanks

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Hi, Michelle.

 

I'm grateful for your assistance with this. You've already been far more pleasant to deal with than your colleagues in the call centre.

 

That said, I'm dismayed that the next step is to once again send out yet another Openreach engineer. This would be the fourth Openreach visit, and the fourth time I've had to take time off work to be at home. I get a limited amount of annual leave, and I don't like wasting days holiday on things like this.

 

What, specifically, would another engineer do that the last three haven't? The previous engineers haven't been able to fix the issue (though they have improved the download speed), or even find a fault that would explain the poor upload speed, so why should the next engineer be any different?

 

TalkTalk seem to be stuck in a loop here. Problem reported > instruct Openreach > problem persists > instruct Openreach > problem persists > instruct Openreach... It must be costing you a fortune in engineer's fees! And from my point of view, it's massively inconvenient for me to have to arrange to be at home each time the engineer visits, just so that the engineer can come into my house, check the equipment and find no fault. All the more frustrating when, as happened last time, the engineer did nothing that resolved the issue.

 

How many Openreach visits before we try something else?

 

Going back to my previous post, can you confirm (and, better still, prove to me, for the sake of my sanity if nothing else!) that I'm on the 40/10 line as I should be? If I am on 40/10, can you tell me if you've reset/retrained the line? Once I'm satisfied that those (presumably simple) steps have been taken, and if the issue is then still not resolved, I might be more minded to agree to another Openreach engineer visit.

 

Thanks again.

Community Team

Hi paul0rimmer

 

Apologies for this.

 

As this fault is still present our Network Team have advised that another visit is required so BT Openreach can complete further investigations.

 

Thanks

 

Debbie

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Debbie,

 

Is that supposed to be a response to my lengthy previous post to Michelle? If so, it's inadequate to say the least.

 

Can someone please respond substantively to my questions, not just parrot the 'We need to appoint Openreach' position?

 

Thank you.

Community Team

Hi,

 

Apologies, I've asked our Network Team if they can elaborate on why another engineer visit it required and if a fault has been identified and we'll let you know as soon as they reply back to us.

 

Thanks

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Thanks again, Michelle. In the meantime, can you tell me if there's a way that I can confirm for myself what profile/line I'm on (eg, 40/10, 40/2, etc)? Or is the only way to look at the connection stats on the TalkTalk Router webpage (which lately are in the region of 38000 down and 3500 up)?

 

Also, is it TalkTalk or Openreach who manage profiles? If it's Openreach, could it be that TalkTalk have requested me to be put on the 40/10 line but Openreach have slipped up and put me on the 40/2 line? If so, can't that be resolved without me having to agree to an Openreach engineer visit?

 

Thanks.

Community Team

Hi paul0rimmer

 

Our Network Team have advised that we can raise a fibre escalation for a higher skilled engineer to visit due to the amount of engineer visits you have already had.

 

It appears that on one of the previous visits the engineer was unable to locate the ports on 29-03-2019, this was raised and should be resolved but the engineer will need to complete some further investigations (when we arrange an engineer visit)

 

BT's DLM manages the line profiles. 

 

Thanks

 

Debbie

 

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

The comedy of errors continues.

 

I contacted TT last week to (reluctantly) arrange for yet another Openreach engineer's visit. This one was to be escalated so that a 'senior engineer' attended, I was told. The visit was scheduled to take place this morning but the engineer failed to show: no visit, no call, no text message.

 

I spoke with TT this afternoon, who explained that because my download speed is deemed to be acceptable (I've never said it was anything less - in fact I've said it's excellent, more than once) it was decided that Openreach didn't need to attend as there was no problem for them to resolve. It would have been considerate if someone had told me this beforehand, so that I didn't waste a day's holiday from work and spent all morning waiting at home, but apparently TT don't do 'considerate'; they just apologise afterwards instead.

 

So now the issue has been 'escalated' (that word again), this time to another team internally within TT, who will supposedly get back to me in 72 hours, hopefully to resolve the issue. I'm quite sure they'll say they need to instruct Openreach again, at which point I'll call a halt to this whole sorry episode and just cancel my contract.

 

What a fiasco.

 

It does, however, go some way towards confirming my theory that there's nothing wrong with the line or the equipment but that the issue lies with my broadband profile being wrong. I'm more convinced now than I was before that I'm on a 40/2 line instead of 40/10. TT say it's Openreach who manage customer's profiles. If true, then the cynic in me suspects that Openreach are knowingly putting TT customers on 40/2 (and probably giving preferential lines to actual BT customers) and are then happy to accept call-out fee after call-out fee from TT when the customer reports poor upload speed. (Not every customer will report it, I'm sure).

 

Conspiracy theories aside, I don;t expect anyone at TT or Openreach to admit to, or even confirm that 'm on the wrong profile, however. Every time I've asked TT the question, the response has been evasive to say the least. A helpful TT customer told me I should be able to tell from the speed stats on the router's homepage, but surely they just tell me what speeds I'm getting (down and up)? Those speeds are approximately 39 down and 2.5 up (and yet every real-world speed test I've done has shown my upload speed capped at 2mbps). 

 

I'll ask it one more time, just for the hell of it: Am I on a 40/10 profile or a 40/2 profile? And can you provide any evidence to confirm the same?

 

If I'm on 40/2 and not 40/10, will you switch me to 40/10, please?

Community Team

Hi Paul,

 

I'm really sorry about the engineer visit, I know it must be very frustrating waiting in for the engineer only for them not to turn up.

 

You are on the 40/10 profile, so it's not the profile cap that's limiting your upstream speed. Your current upstream sync speed is 2.4Mbps


Can I just ask if you've tried a different router?

Chris

 

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

Hi, Chris. Thanks for your input, but your question about the router shows that you've not read the previous posts in this thread. Your colleague asked the same question. As I explained to her, I've not tried another router because it's not the router that's the problem. It's not any of the equipment, or the telephone line, that's the problem. If it was, the Openreach engineers (the two of them who actually showed up and who came into my home) who used their own equipment to check that would have told me so (and I'd have been charged a fee for their attendance, no doubt). Their own equipment produced the same results as my router did: good download speed, terrible upload speed. Try as they did, they couldn't find a way to blame my equipment.

 

The engineers have replaced the line - the actual cable, which was corroded - between my house and the cabinet, so it's not that either.

 

If it was faulty infrastructure or faulty equipment, would I be getting 37mbps download speed (which is a fantastic speed, given how far I am from the cabinet and the exchange)?

 

So no, I've not tried another router, as it would be a waste of time. And to be blunt, I've wasted enough time already on this issue, taking days off work and waiting at home for engineers who either don't turn up or who do but then walk off the job without telling me what's happened or what will happen next.

 

So - and forgive my tone, but I'm sick and tired of repeating this to TT - it's not the line, it's not the socket, it's not the router or the computer equipment in my home that's the problem here. 

 

It would be great if before responding you'd read the rest of the thread or, better still, the email I sent to your complaints team (which your colleague yesterday, by phone, confirmed is on my file and available to view) which goes into great detail about the history of the issue and what I've done to investigate it and what the Openreach engineers have done already.

 

Briefly, it goes like this: something changed in February this year, and all of a sudden I went from getting 6-7mbps upload to getting 2mbps upload. (I have an Ookla speedtest history that confirms this). 2mbps doesn't allow enough 'headroom', so when something is uploading, the download speed crashes to under 0.5mbps. Whatever caused this issue is not a hardware problem, so by deduction, it must surely be either a profile or a capping issue. What else can it be, logically?

 

TalkTalk proudly advertise the fact that they don't cap. So if it's not capping, then that leaves a profile issue, right?

 

You say I'm on 40/10, but - at the risk of flogging a dead horse - what makes you say that? The fact that the tariff I'm on suggests I should be on 40/10? Or the fact that my router says I'm getting 2.4mbps upload? If the latter, let me express my skepticism once again: the router might tell you I'm getting 2.4mbps upload, but every speedtest I do - Ookla, BT - tells me I'm getting 2mbps; no more, occasionally a little less (and in fact whenever I upload anything - to Youtube, Dropbox, wherever - even if by software settings I limit the upload speed to 0.5mbps it still cripples my download speed until the upload has finished).

 

So forgive my cynicism but, despite what you say, I'm still not convinced I'm on the 40/10 line, and I put you to proof: Can you get Openreach to send some incontrovertible evidence that I'm on 40/10 (and can you then forward that evidence to me)? Or are we - TT and me - supposed to just take their word for it? Because if we are, I'm afraid I'm struggling with that. It's been almost two months now since I reported this issue, and in all that time, and despite three Openreach engineer visits, no-one has been able to explain it. What would you think, Chris, is this was your home broadband? Would you accept that you really were on the correct profile (40/10)? Or would you maybe, just possibly, think you were being fobbed off? Because I can tell you what think.

umanu2
Wizz Kid

Sorry 2+ cents worth.

 

With TalkTalk there is no 40/2 profile, the standard fibre profile is 40/10 as @OCE_Chris has indicated that you are on. If a speed test shows around 2 Mbps at your screen and @OCE_Chris 's stats show 2.3 Mbps at the router then you aren't on any 40/2 profile.

 

But what might be happening is a situation very similar to mine. Your profile is 40/10 but because of performance issues (as you say you had a couple of months back) your speed is reduced to compensate. Once the problem is resolved DLM will then (in theory) increase your speed back to match your assigned profile (40/10). In my circumstances my downstream recovered to approx. 40 Mbps, but my upstream only every recovered to 6 Mbps when it was previously running nearer 9.5 Mbps and has stayed there for several months - it could be that you have a partially "stuck" profile. I can live with a 6 Mbps upstream, 2 Mbps would be (as you haver discovered) severely performance crippling.

 

You can partially prove this if you have access to your full router stats which I don't think you have previously reported, this is very easy with HG633 or HG635, no idea about DL-3782 or a WiFi hub (no idea which one you have). What you need to look at in particular is your actual upstream (the insync speed), your max possible upstream, the upstream noise margin and your upstream interleaving depth. Knowing these would potentially help you identify the problem. FWIW my upstream noise margin is way above the standard SNR level and hence restricts my upstream speed.

 

Unfortunately it is only ever downstream performance that is guarenteed, so resolving upstream issues is problematical for TalkTalk.

 

Has any of the BTOR engineers ever performed a full DLM reset whilst on your property ?

paul0rimmer
Team Player

umanu2, thanks for taking the time to post. Much appreciated. You've given me more useful info in one post more than I've got from TT in over a dozen phone calls, emails and chats.

 

I appreciate that TT don't do 40/2, but Openreach do, and as TT have told me, it's Openreach who manage profiles. So while I'm totally accepting of the fact that TT have requested that I be put on 40/10, my faith in Openreach to actually comply is somewhat shaken, not least by the fact that none of the BTOR engineers who've attended have been particularly forthcoming with answers, details or help. Their attitude has been dismissive at times, and I've been made to feel like I'm being taken for a ride. Which is why I've come to the conclusion that they know I'm on 40/2 and they've got no intention of changing that as long as TT are happy to keep paying them to come out and not fix the issue. Maybe my frustration with TT's call centre staff (script readers) has got the better of me and I'm now seeing conspiracy where there is none.

 

So what you're saying is if my router's screen is showing 2.4 upstream then, even though my actual real-world upload speed is never greater than 2mbps, I can't be on 40/2? In other words, the router's upstream stat is showing the maximum or the potential achievable speed, but none of the many (so, so very many) Ookla/BT speedtests I've done have just never managed to achieve the same speed? OK, I'll accept that.

 

As for whether the Openreach engineers performing a full DLM reset, I couldn't tell you. The first engineer (the most thorough, as far as I could tell) did say he had 'done a reset', but I don't remember him specifying whether it was a DLM reset. He wasn't very communicative, to be honest.

 

Surely though, they'd have done a DLM reset on at least one of their four visits? Or should I not make that assumption?

 

And surely TT can - and would have - request(ed) a DLM reset, no? Or again, is that not an assumption I should make? Perhaps someone at TT can confirm?

 

The router, by the way, is a TalkTalk WiFi hub, FAST 5364. The stats it's showing are:

                               Downstream         Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 39998                    2443
Maximum Rate [Kbps]39341               2443
Noise Margin [dB] 4.40                        6.20
Attenuation [dB] 25.20                         0.00
Power [dBm] 12.10                              1.80

 

(Excuse the poor formatting).

 

Thanks again for your post. Hopefully someone at TT can see this and request a (another?) DLM reset?

 

Community Team

Hi paul0rimmer,

 

I have read the other posts. I didn't suggest trying a different router because I think it will improve your upstream sync speed, I suggested it to hopefully help with uploading causing downloads to grind to a halt


Chris

 

paul0rimmer
Team Player

I don't have another router to hand, but anyway that sounds like a workaround rather than a solution to the upstream issue.

 

Can you arrange a full DLM reset on my line, please?