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WiFi Hub Stats & Performance.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Debbie- ok thanks.

 

I have just noticed that my router appears to have reset about 3 hours ago (around 06:45), I can't see anything significantly different in the stats. (although several of the values are consistantly reported as zero with this gui).

 

Does this reset show in whatever line stats you have access to ?

Community Team

Hi iefbr14

 

I've checked the connection stats and there are some re connections showing on the line, this doesn't appear to be related to any DLM profile changes.

 

Please can you connect the new WiFi Hub at the test socket once you receive it and we can check the connection stats again.

 

Thanks

 

Debbie

Anonymous
Not applicable

OK.

lancia
Wizz Kid

I've notice several values reported as zero as well, will be interesting to see if replacement hub fixes your issues.

Anonymous
Not applicable

@lancia wrote:

I've notice several values reported as zero as well, will be interesting to see if replacement hub fixes your issues.


Fingers crossed. I'll post the results in the thread as soon as I can.

 

I have already moved my current router to the test socket - made no difference. I then did the 30 minute power down - made no difference.

Community Team

Hi  iefbr14,

 

Out of interest when did you actually receive the wifi hub?

Chris

Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Chris wrote:

Hi  iefbr14,

 

Out of interest when did you actually receive the wifi hub?

Chris



Around the middle of last week.

 

If you have access to the speed test history in "My Account" you should be able to identify the day I first installed it. The day my performance took the nose dive.

Community Team

Hi iefbr14

 

OK, thanks. Your sync speed actually seems to have dropped a few days before you received the wifi hub, DLM changed your profile to a 35Mbps capped profile on the 23rd, then to a 32.4Mbps profile on the 24th, went back to 35Mbps profile on the 26th and then back to 32.4Mbps on the 27th and it appears to have been on that profile since. 

 

So the line history shows that your sync speed hasn't been above 35Mbps since the 23rd June which is 3 or 4 days before you received the wifi hub, (throughput speeds are always lower than sync speed)

 

Anyway please let us know how you get on with the new router

 

Chris

Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Chris

 

From memory - when my line was previously banded my max. downstream speed stayed at its historically high level, i.e. between 43 Mbps and 49 Mbps depending whether vectoring was being correctly identified or not.

 

A high SNR was then applied to the line which reduced my "actual" line rate down to the banded performance level.

 

With this new wifi hub my max. rate is 35 Mbps, and then you say banded down to 32.4 Mbps.

 

An actual line rate of 32.4 Mbps I would suggest is a reasonable value if the router is only receiving 35 Mbps. But as this wifi hub reports that my downstream SNR is 0.00 dB is becomes challenging to identify the overhead reduction.

 

The gui results I posted a couple of days ago show that the max. downstream when using an HG635 is signifiantly higher than the max. downstream reported when I use the wifi hub. Banding or no banding should not (as far as I know) effect those max. values.

 

The question remains why the max. with this router is only 35 Mbps - when with previous HG routers the max. stayed hign and was then banded down.

 

And why was my line banded (again) when no issues were being evidenced ? The previous cause of banding was well documented in an earlier thread (which was locked by CS ferguson making updating impossible).

 

Curious.

Community Team

Hi iefbr14

 

"With this new wifi hub my max. rate is 35 Mbps, and then you say banded down to 32.4 Mbps."

 

No, your max rate was banded by DLM to 35Mbps with the previous router on the 23rd, then DLM changed your profile again and banded it to 32.4Mbps on the 24th, again with the old router before you'd received the new one. Since then DLM has changed your profile two or three times between 32.4 and 35

 

"A high SNR was then applied to the line which reduced my "actual" line rate down to the banded performance level."

 

Capping the speed increases the SNR rather than it being the other way around

 

"The question remains why the max. with this router is only 35 Mbps - when with previous HG routers the max. stayed hign and was then banded down."

 

Not sure what you mean, if your referring the theoretical max speed reported by the router then I don't know how this is arrived at, it's not something that we ever really look at.

 

"And why was my line banded (again) when no issues were being evidenced ? The previous cause of banding was well documented in an earlier thread (which was locked by CS ferguson making updating impossible)."

 

DLM changes your profile because the number of disconnections and/or errors exceeds the number allowed by the algorithm, it won't have changed your profile for no reason even though you may not have noticed anything


Chris

Anonymous
Not applicable

 

@OCE_Chris

 

There seem to be inconsistencies in your last post.

 

I stated the SNR was increased to implement the banding - you say no the SNR is increased. Isn't that the same thing.

 

You seem to be ignoring the evidence of the HG635 router stats that I posted earlier in the thread. HG635 - max downstream around 10% higher than the wifi hub, even after you say it has been banded - something is obviously behaving differently there.

 

My line was previously banded due to repeated router and firmware changes (5 or 6 in one day !) - I fully appreciate why I was banded in the past. But I will repeat, from my perspective my line has been 100% stable, no stability issues evident. How many disconnects are you seeing and at what times ? What error rate is being reported ?

 

Because of suspected banding TT Networks checked my line at the end of May - no issues found. All this was reported on an earlier thread, which CS ferguson chose to lock thus preventing any further updates.

 

BTOR then checked my line on May 30th, no problems found, DLM reset to remove the banding. No issues since then (that I was aware of) - so why would my line have been banded again on June 23rd ? The initial banding had a known and identifiable cause, which is not apparent in this latest DLM intervention. How bad does performance have to be to induce banding ?

 

As this wifi hub insists my downstream SNR is 0.00 it has been impossible for me to identify any potential banding issues.

 

With the previous banding my max. rate stayed high, the SNR then appeared to be used as the mechanism to force my actual down to the banded level.

 

So why was my line banded again when no problems had been experienced? And does this mean another suggested BTOR engineer visit to correct this situation again ?

 

The stats that I have access to show no indication of crashes, resets etc. in the period immediately before the wifi hub was installed. It usually takes significant activity to “force” banding - I have no recent evidence of that, and you seem to be saying that you don't have any specific evidence either, only that DLM doesn’t react for no reason. No formal evidence beyond that ?

 

Very surprised that you don't look at the max. downstream speed. How else do you or anyone else identify if an upgrade from 40/10 to 80/20 is realistic and applicable. It is the best way to judge. How do you identify what performance levels a line is actually capable of supporting ? Or are you simply satisfied if a line is "within estimated bounds" ?

 

But maybe best left until the new router has been installed which will hopefully report statistics significantly more accurately.

 

EDIT - With regards to DLM activity, could you please explain this statement from

 

@OCE_Debbie:-

 

I've checked the connection stats and there are some re connections showing on the line, this doesn't appear to be related to any DLM profile changes.

 

Some reconnections not related to DLM profile changes ???

 

Community Team

Hi lefrb14,

 

"I stated the SNR was increased to implement the banding - you say no the SNR is increased. Isn't that the same thing."

 

It's not really the same because the SNR isn't increased intentionally in this case, the speed is capped, the SNR just increases automatically as a consequence of this. I only mentioned it as there seems to be some confusion about the way DLM works in this scenario

 

"You seem to be ignoring the evidence of the HG635 router stats that I posted earlier in the thread. HG635 - max downstream around 10% higher than the wifi hub, even after you say it has been banded - something is obviously behaving differently there."

 

If you're referring to the theoretical maximum speed reported by the router, then yes I'm ignoring it as we don't use this information. it isn't something we refer to, I've no idea how accurate it is or what it's based on

 

"Very surprised that you don't look at the max. downstream speed. How else do you or anyone else identify if an upgrade from 40/10 to 80/20 is realistic and applicable. It is the best way to judge."

 

We look at the predicated range from Openreach and also take into account current speeds.

 

Thanks

Chris

Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Debbie

 

The new router arrived about an hour ago. I powered off and waited the full 30+ minutes before powering the new router on - and nothing. Apart from a few Kbps difference in the max and actual download speeds the reported stats are still very much questionable. I have attached a screen shot, but particularly note :-

 

Downstream SNR - 0.00 dB.

 

Downstream attenuation - 25.9 dB - this is about 25% higher than with any previous HG router. I appreciate that this number can change for various reasons, but a 25% variance ?

 

All the upstream numbers still look very rounded at exactly 6000 Kbps, 6000 Kbps, 6.00 dB, and zero attenuation ?

 

So what next ? And as before, a potentially chargeable BTOR engineer is not an option.

 New Router.jpg

 

 

p.s. I have reverted back to the original wifi hub as customising the "new" hub for no benefit appeared to be a bit redundant.

 

I can return the new hub "as new with very low mileage". Seems a pity to send it straight to recycling (or the scrap heap) or whatever you do with returns.

 

and as a p.s. @OCE_Chris - in your last post you said you ignore the max. upstream and downstream rate statistics. Just because you personally (or collectively) ignore those numbers does not imply they are meaningless. Somebody bothered monitoring those numbers and visualised them for a reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Community Team

Hi iefbr14,

 

Thanks for the update, the sync speed won't be any different with the new router because your line profile is capping your speed at 32.4Mbps, DLM needs time to monitor the line with the new router and make adjustments. Could you leave the new router connected over the weekend and bump the thread on Monday, we can then check to see if there's been any improvement 


Thanks

Chris

Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Chris

 

As there was no significant difference between the old and new routers I have reverted to the originally supplied router so that I could return a "pristine" router, if you would handle that any differently to normal returns. Also customising (SSID's) etc. on the "new" router would have been an unnecessary effort.

 

It is unlikely that DLM will make any significant changes whilst the wifi hubs are reporting such an unusually high downstream attenuation.

 

All my previous routers calculate a downstream attenuation of around 19 dB to 21 dB. These wifi hubs are calculating just under 26 dB. My understanding is that attenuation can (all things being equal) be roughly taken as a measure of distance from source (cabinet for fibre). And distance is associated with downstream speed capability. My house has not moved.

 

Although I appreciate that you personally ignore the max. value, but this increase in downstream attenuation has cause the reported max. downstream speed to my router to be significantly depressed, thereby also reducing throughput. The relationship between attenuation and speed is well documented (e.g. Kitz) and IMO cannot be ignored.

 

Whilst my max. downstream is set around 35 Mbps DLM's ability to increase my actual line speed is fairly well non-existant.

 

I suspect that this potential miscalculation in the negotiated attenuation between my router and local fibre cabinet is a significant factor contributing to the poor performance I am experiencing (with both wifi hubs, but not HG based routers). And that together with the other stats being produced by the router (SNR of zero etc.) would tend to indicate a potential firmware issue.

 

 

 

 

Community Team

Hi iefbr14,

 

Thanks for the information. Just to clarify (so that I can feed this back to our product team) as the actual sync speed of the wifi hub doesn't appear to be any different to the HG635, is your only concern the actual difference in the router stats (attenuation, SNR, potential maximum speed) rather than a difference in real world performance?

Chris

lancia
Wizz Kid

I would have thought the DLM was limiting his sync speed at the moment, however as he's stated the new hub is not calculating attenuation and missing other stats altogether. If it's not calculating properly he's not going to move off his DLM profile, or have i got this wrong? This will effect his real world performance as the stats are incorrect and showing him further away from the cab. My hub is exactly the same, i left it 30 minutes before installing and it sync's lower than the HG635. My stats are also dubios, I do think this leans toward a firmware issue.

Community Team

Hi lancia,

 

If the attenuation is higher then this can affect speed but if the attenuation is the same but the wifi hub is just reporting it incorrectly (don't know if it is or not) then I can't see how this would affect the speed


Chris

Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Chris wrote:

Hi lancia,

 

If the attenuation is higher then this can affect speed but if the attenuation is the same but the wifi hub is just reporting it incorrectly (don't know if it is or not) then I can't see how this would affect the speed


Chris


The max. downstream as being reported by the wifi hub appears to be consistant with the reported attenuation.

 

I currently plan to leave the wifi hub connected over the weekend (as requested). If nothing significant happens then I will swap back to my old HG633 router to see how that reacts.

Anonymous
Not applicable

@OCE_Chris wrote:

Hi iefbr14,

 

Thanks for the information. Just to clarify (so that I can feed this back to our product team) as the actual sync speed of the wifi hub doesn't appear to be any different to the HG635, is your only concern the actual difference in the router stats (attenuation, SNR, potential maximum speed) rather than a difference in real world performance?


Chris


Sorry @OCE_Chris just seen this post, didn't seem to get any notification.

 

No I am not specifically concerned about the difference in the router stats. I am very concerned by the massive drop in performance I have suffered in the last month or so. Which are evidenced in the router gui stats.

 

In particular there is a significant difference in the reported  attenuation figures. This is also reflected by the difference in the max. downstream speeds. This is a visable symptom of the issue..

 

You have previously informed me that my line is being banded to around 32 Mbps, so that will be overriding other parameters. It would not matter that the HG635 gives me far better downstream speed than the wifi hub if the line is banded to below that level (and would potentially take a few days to recover).

 

From the unbanded HG635 and HG633 values from a couple of months ago I have lost nearly 30% of my downstream speed (max and actual) - that is what concerns me.

 

And I paid £30 to degrade my system !