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Fast Fibre + Boost: high packet loss and duplicate packets

andi_b
Participant
Message 28 of 28

Hi, since I switched from broadband to fast fibre boost, I started having intermittent connection freezes. I noticed these freezes occur mostly when I see bursts of duplicate packets and a high packet loss of >5%. This is the usual output when I ping a highly available internet host from a console:


64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1283 ttl=118 time=21.5 ms (DUP!)
64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1283 ttl=118 time=22.2 ms (DUP!)
64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1285 ttl=118 time=6.65 ms
64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1285 ttl=118 time=7.23 ms (DUP!)
64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1286 ttl=118 time=10.8 ms
64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1290 ttl=118 time=7.38 ms (DUP!)
64 bytes from xxxxx-xx-xx.xxxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx): icmp_seq=1290 ttl=118 time=10.1 ms (DUP!)


The Talktalk router is connected directly to the OpenReach master socket, my computer is in a healthy state (normal CPU/Memory usage) and connected directly to the router with a 1.5 meter network cable. The issue happens as well with other cables and for all other devices connected via WIFI.

 

A BrightSparks engineer came and said he could see an issue outside of the building, I should wait a few days and all should be good again. Unfortunately it didn't get any better. Then an OpenReach engineer came, changed a cable and installed a new master socket. Still the same problem.

The other two flats on my level have Sky fibre and never experienced this kind of issue. Needless to say that I was countless times on a chat with talktalk technicians and tried everything they recommended (removing the NTE5C plate and connect the microfilter cable directly, change microfilter, etc). I added a screenshot which shows the incoming data flow (blue) totally breaking down for a few seconds, and then recovering. The connection breakdown coincides with the duplicate packets and high packet loss (sometimes even >40% in a 5 mins time frame).

 

Restarting the router often improves the packet loss and duplicate packets, which is enough to get a friction-less connection for some time, but this is definitely not the final solution.

 

The Boost was not activated immediately and I don't recall of any issues prior to the activation (with broadband or fast fibre without boost).

 

Is there anyone else experiencing this issue or anyone who was able to fix it?

 

Thanks in advance!

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27 REPLIES 27

Message 1 of 28

Hi andi,

 

I'm glad to hear this and thanks for confirming. There is no rush to return the old router as I appreciate that we're now in a 2nd lockdown so please return when it's safe for yourself to do so 🙂

 

Thanks

 

Message 2 of 28

Hi Michelle,


the connection is stable now. The max download speed is 49 MBit/s which is the minimum contract speed. I'm happy that the issue is finally resolved. And yes I got a return bag so I can send the old/faulty router back today if you're OK with it.


Thanks

Michelle-TalkTalk
Support Team
Message 3 of 28

Hi andi,

 

I'm sorry for the delay and thanks for the update. Is the connection still ok since your last post? Did you receive a router returns bag?

 

Thanks

 

Message 4 of 28

Hi, since I got the new router last Friday I didn't see a single duplicate packet and the connection runs smoothly. Would have been nice finding the issue 4 months ago as it would have saved me lots of trouble. Many thanks anyway for being so proactive trying to solve my issue.

Is it OK to return the old router now or you want me to test anything else?

 

Here the info about the old and new TalkTalk routers:

 

andi_b_0-1604591283307.png

 

OLD:
Device Type: DG8041W 2.T5
Hardware Version: I.1.01
Software Version: v1.05t

 

NEW:
Hardware Version: FAST5364 3.00
Software Version: SG4K10002816t

Message 5 of 28

Message 6 of 28

Thanks Michelle, I'll test asap once the new router arrives.

 

Last Update as of today: Thu 29 Oct 11:14:53 GMT 2020

 

Good upload speed (as always) but broken download speed.

 

188 packets transmitted, 173 received, +9 duplicates, 7.97872% packet loss, time 187496ms

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.276/7.670/25.308/3.226 ms

 

andi_b_1-1603970176408.png

 

Update: Thu 29 Oct 13:01:14 GMT 2020

I restarted the router again as the connection performance didn't allow me to WFH properly due to continuous slowness and lags. Unfortunately it didn't get any better.

 

620 packets transmitted, 520 received, +19 duplicates, +4 errors, 16.129% packet loss, time 621875ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 4.857/7.346/27.233/3.084 ms, pipe 3

 

To be honest, I cannot imagine this has anything to do with the router, as it works perfectly and at full speed at certain times. The first host I see with the traceroute command is "ae50-ner002.thw.as13285.net". Can the network engineers try to get some evidence from there? Is there any other information I can give you to help troubleshooting the issue?

 

Thanks

Message 7 of 28

Hi andi,

 

Our Network Team have advised that they have tried to make contact. They have advised that they have sent a different router for testing and have asked if you could test this when this arrives and let us know if there is any improvement please?

 

Thanks

 

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Message 8 of 28

Hi andi,

 

I've contacted our Network Team now and have asked if they can provide an update on this ASAP.

 

Thanks

 

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Message 9 of 28

Ok, unfortunately it didn't last long. The connection performance degraded again, with duplicates and high packet loss, the download speed dropped from 60Mbps to 2-3Mbps, upload speed is good as usual. Nothing changed on my side (1 desktop computer connected to the router via wire, same applications running, same mem/cpu stats).

Below the results from the online Talktalk speed test. Can please someone have a look urgently?

 

andi_b_2-1603818214245.png

 

 

andi_b_0-1603821783123.png

 

 

Update 1: same today (Wed 28 Oct 12:07:18 GMT 2020)

 

60 packets transmitted, 49 received, +13 duplicates, 18.3333% packet loss, time 59243ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.237/7.426/25.203/3.158 ms

Update 2: It's good again after restarting the router (Wed 28 Oct 15:02:43 GMT 2020)

 

4161 packets transmitted, 4157 received, 0.0961307% packet loss, time 4165579ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 4.893/6.973/61.762/2.902 ms

 

Clearly there's an  issue somewhere and restarting the router is rather a quick-fix than a fix to the real issue.

I'm disappointed with TalkTalk's handling of this case, it's not transparent to me if any investigation was carried or any change was done at all.

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Message 10 of 28

Hi,

 

I'm really glad to hear this and I'll check in with you early next week to check if the connection/performance has remained consistent.

 

Thanks 🙂

 

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Message 11 of 28

Hi Michelle,

 

I didn't hear anything from the network team, but the connection is stable since Monday, the packet loss is consistently <2% and the connection doesn't collapse anymore, max download speed is good at 60 MBit/s, I didn't experience any single lag when WFH. This is the fist time it's working as expected since I got fast fibre installed in mid July. It would be nice to know what the problem was and how it got fixed, in case it appears again. Obviously the issue wasn't within my building, as nothing changed here.

 

Let's see if the connection continues to be stable in future, I'll closely monitor it for a while.

 

Thanks

Michelle-TalkTalk
Support Team
Message 12 of 28

Hi andi,

 

Can I just confirm, have you heard from our Network Team since my last post? If not then I will chase for an update on this for you.

 

Thanks

 

Message 13 of 28

Staff reply during the day Monday to Friday,  @andi_b, so this needs to wait for them to reach your thread again. 

Gliwmaeden2, a fellow customer.

Message 14 of 28

It's particularly bad again today. From the traceroute outputs below, it looks like the first hop is over one of your machines: ae50-ner002.thw.as13285.net (78.144.1.3)

Could it be that the host is overloaded or doesn't have enough capacity to serve my requests? The other flats on my floor use another provider and don't experience the same issues.

 

By searching after the host mentioned above I saw this post from 21-09-2019

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Packet-losses-when-gaming/td-p/2408034

which highlights the same issue as mine (it's unclear how it got fixed).

 

--- google.co.uk ping statistics ---
148 packets transmitted, 118 received, +16 duplicates, 20.2703% packet loss, time 151812ms

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 81.367/82.799/102.698/2.737 ms

 

--- google.co.uk ping statistics ---
425 packets transmitted, 389 received, +29 duplicates, 8.47059% packet loss, time 425130ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.652/6.502/10.494/0.666 ms

 

--- google.co.uk ping statistics ---
700 packets transmitted, 600 received, +74 duplicates, 14.2857% packet loss, time 701443ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 4.890/6.680/27.978/3.486 ms

 

traceroute google.co.uk
traceroute to google.co.uk (216.58.211.163), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 router (192.168.1.1) 0.477 ms 3.034 ms 0.618 ms
2 * * *
3 ae50-ner002.thw.as13285.net (78.144.1.3) 8.876 ms 8.912 ms 10.416 ms
4 * * 78.144.1.2 (78.144.1.2) 9.780 ms
5 * 74.125.51.110 (74.125.51.110) 8.667 ms 74.125.51.108 (74.125.51.108) 8.704 ms
6 * 10.252.56.158 (10.252.56.158) 6.792 ms 6.793 ms
7 108.170.246.161 (108.170.246.161) 6.199 ms 172.253.71.190 (172.253.71.190) 8.198 ms 172.253.71.200 (172.253.71.200) 8.431 ms
8 108.170.246.176 (108.170.246.176) 6.825 ms 108.170.246.144 (108.170.246.144) 5.618 ms 172.253.50.223 (172.253.50.223) 6.403 ms
9 pg (216.58.211.163) 6.326 ms 216.239.58.133 (216.239.58.133) 6.848 ms pg (216.58.211.163) 5.721 ms

 

 

traceroute google.co.uk
traceroute to google.co.uk (172.217.169.3), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 router (192.168.1.1) 0.380 ms 0.536 ms 2.400 ms
2 * * *
3 ae50-ner002.thw.as13285.net (78.144.1.3) 9.071 ms 10.554 ms *
4 * ae50-scr102.thw.as13285.net (78.144.1.2) 10.646 ms 9.037 ms
5 74.125.51.110 (74.125.51.110) 9.679 ms 9.773 ms 74.125.51.108 (74.125.51.108) 9.724 ms
6 * * 10.252.167.94 (10.252.167.94) 9.980 ms
7 * 216.239.57.118 (216.239.57.118) 5.880 ms 216.239.58.220 (216.239.58.220) 5.837 ms
8 74.125.242.83 (74.125.242.83) 7.774 ms 209.85.241.93 (209.85.241.93) 6.725 ms 74.125.242.115 (74.125.242.115) 7.779 ms
9 lhr25s26-in-f3.1e100.net (172.217.169.3) 5.829 ms 5.014 ms 5.727 ms

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Michelle-TalkTalk
Support Team
Message 15 of 28

Hi andi,

 

Thank you. I've passed this straight over to our Network Team now for further investigation and will let you know as soon as I receive an update back.

 

Thanks

 

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Message 16 of 28

I run this just now, as I've connection performance issues the whole morning. The performance deterioration and connection collapses are strongly linked to the floods of duplicate packets I see in the console. I don't get a real-time message for packet loss, but I assume it happens at the same time of the duplicate packets.

 

 

--- google.co.uk ping statistics ---
29 packets transmitted, 21 received, +4 duplicates, 27.5862% packet loss, time 28156ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.815/8.817/26.089/5.183 ms

 

--- google.co.uk ping statistics ---
217 packets transmitted, 206 received, +5 duplicates, 5.06912% packet loss, time 216484ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.581/6.812/27.442/2.646 ms

 

 

traceroute google.co.uk
traceroute to google.co.uk (172.217.169.67), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 router (192.168.1.1) 0.547 ms 0.675 ms 0.397 ms
2 * * *
3 ae50-ner002.thw.as13285.net (78.144.1.3) 8.666 ms 6.110 ms 8.656 ms
4 ae50-scr102.thw.as13285.net (78.144.1.2) 6.094 ms 6.179 ms 6.904 ms
5 74.125.51.110 (74.125.51.110) 7.530 ms 74.125.51.108 (74.125.51.108) 8.632 ms 74.125.51.110 (74.125.51.110) 7.492 ms
6 10.23.223.94 (10.23.223.94) 7.504 ms 10.23.217.62 (10.23.217.62) 8.256 ms 10.23.223.94 (10.23.223.94) 7.336 ms

7 108.170.232.102 (108.170.232.102) 6.427 ms 172.253.71.188 (172.253.71.188) 6.217 ms 108.170.246.161 (108.170.246.161) 6.754 ms
8 * * *
9 * * *
10 * * 209.85.241.210 (209.85.241.210) 22.938 ms
11 74.125.242.65 (74.125.242.65) 9.061 ms * *
12 * 172.253.66.99 (172.253.66.99) 15.330 ms 7.134 ms
13 lhr48s09-in-f3.1e100.net (172.217.169.67) 6.380 ms 5.644 ms 6.407 ms

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Michelle-TalkTalk
Support Team
Message 17 of 28

Hi andi,

 

Could you run another wired and ping and trace route the next time this happens please and post the results into the thread and we can pass this over to our Network Team to take a look at this.

 

Run a Ping or Traceroute

 

Thanks

 

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Message 18 of 28

Additionally, I remember that I got the router around 3 weeks before fibre was activated. During those two weeks I was able to use the broadband internet connection without issues with the new router.

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Message 19 of 28

I can confirm that the packet loss happens in the morning hours as well, today it reached >20% and the internet connection was unusable at those specific times.

I doubt much it's the router, but it might be worth a try in future if we can't nail down the problem.

 

Would it be possible to remove the boost first, just to see if the connection gets any better with lower speeds?

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Michelle-TalkTalk
Support Team
Message 20 of 28

Hi andi,

 

Thanks for the additional information. Can I just confirm, have you ever tested with a different router? If not then we can send a replacement router for testing purposes to rule this out?

 

Thanks

 

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