on 15-07-2019 09:46 AM
I have three Windows 10 PCs and other things on my network. The PCs are all using USB wifi adapters to connect.
However when one particular PC is connected to the network, the whole network grinds to a standstill. I have tried two different network adapters, and the effect is the same with both.
I have checked for other wifi signals which might be conflicting, but there are only 2 very low powered signals to be seen and no channel conflicts.
I would welcome any suggestions to work out what is going on.
on 19-07-2019 11:03 AM
I might try that. I've just reboxed the 3782 and put it back in the drawer!
Back in the day, TT provided an HG532 with modified firmware so that the connection from the modem could go into one of the LAN ports, but I got my Netgear router which has a dedicated input port for the connection from the modem (but doesn't support IGMP, so the TV service doesn't work). The HG533 has a dedicated input port for the modem connection, and is configurable for use of either ADSL or VDSL. (It has a built in ADSL modem.)
I thought about putting the 3782 at the location where the HG533 is, and using the phone wiring to connect, but then I'll have the degraded service caused by bridge tap problem. So many options!
Thanks for the help so far.
on 19-07-2019 10:46 AM
I have no way of proving if this will work, as I don't have a separate modem, but what about replacing the HG533 with the 3782. Then connect the pla back to the modem to LAN1 on the 3782?
on 19-07-2019 10:30 AM
I checked the driver date in the other PC and it was the same.
The troublesome PC has completed it feature upgrade of Windows 10.
I monitored the performance of the DSL-3782 connected to the master socket and it has dropped the broadband connection after about 16 hours and reconnected at about 8/25Mb. Such behaviour not acceptable but known to be caused by a bridge tap fault which can't be repaired. (Wiring built into house.)
I've reinstated the configuration with VDSL modem (in test socket) and HG533 (via PLAs), which gives good performance on all devices, and tolerable performance on the spare PC when it isn't exhibiting the problem of bringing the whole network down, which it isn't at the moment. I'll leave things alone for a few days now. It's good to know that there is someone to refer to to investigate this sort of thing.
on 18-07-2019 11:01 AM
I notice that the date on the Realtek Driver was 28/5/2019. That is very recent, and may be a factor. I will look at the date on the driver in the PC which wasn't having a problem.
I only started using the HG533 at Easter, but it was brand new out of the box, as I had been storing it for a few years.
If I can find a tolerable working solution, using some combination of router, PLAs and USB interfaces, I will file the problem as one of life's great mysteries. After 40 years of working in IT, I know sometimes a workaround is better than a solution.
on 18-07-2019 10:42 AM
To answer the conflict question, I need to find the cause of the problem. The last Wirehark trace showed when it happened & what effect it had on the particular HTTP session, but it did not give the cause of the problem. This is most likely that without expensive dedicated additional hardware, Wireshark cannot record the wireless control frames.
That is why I suggested combining a Wireshark trace with a Netsh trace, but whilst I am happy to do this, it will be very time consuming & hence a number of days before I could find the cause.
on 18-07-2019 10:36 AM
As an interim I have replaced the faceplate on the master socket, and connected the DSL-3782 into the master socket. This has also activated the house's internal telephone wiring with the bridge tap fault. Consequently it is now sychronised at 7890 upload and 27296 download whereas when connected to the test socket it was much closer to 10/40. I will monitor it for a while, and see if the connection is stable.
I still don't understand the conflict between the Realtek USB Dongle and the HG533 router, as I have two identical such dongles, and the other one was working just fine with the HG533 on a different PC.
on 17-07-2019 04:00 PM
Per my PM reply, I have now swapped out the HG533 and connected the DSL-3782, and the offending PC is ticking away nicely at 20Mbps. Problem is that means my main PC, is now getting slower connection, due to being further from the router. I will monitor the situation.
(Indications are some sort of confusion between the Realtek wi-fi dongle and the HG533)
I have another permutation which I could try, which is to plug the DSL-3782 into a phone socket near the TV and Youview box, but as there is a bridge tap fault reported on my internal wiring (so I have the router connected to the test socket at the master), this may present its own problems!
on 17-07-2019 03:13 PM
No, don't worry about stopping anything running for now. I have just sent you a PM with the next stage of the diagnosis plan.
on 17-07-2019 03:03 PM
The PC has made a start at downloading Windows 10 Feature Update 1903, and when the speed ground to a standstill it had achieved about 75% downloaded. I expect everytime it sees an Internet connection it tries to resume that activity. I think I have OneDrive turned off, but I can check. I can also attempt to turn off the MS Update process. I can do this with wifi disconnected, and then trace the action of turning it on again.
17-07-2019 01:49 PM - edited 17-07-2019 02:29 PM
From a very quick look at trace 3 so far, the largest TCP conversation originated by your PC via an HTTP session to 126.96.36.199 which is an MS Filestreaming site at 19:54:46.306570000 yesterday (http://tlu.dl.delivery.mp.microsoft.com/filestreamingservice). It is requesting a list of files from this MS streaming server.
Do you recognise this - is it OneDrive? It does not transfer a massive amount of data though (815K), so unlikely to be swamping anything.
What is interesting is that the IP Segmentation goes haywire at 19:55:29.650959 for some massive amount of time (23.5 seconds) with numerous out of order packets & TCP retransmissions etc. This may though be a symptom of something else causing the problem.
I now need to focus on this time period some more.
on 16-07-2019 10:08 PM
I have downloaded both of those traces, I think trace 3 is the most likely one. I won't have time to analyse it though until tomorrow PM.
on 16-07-2019 08:05 PM - last edited on 16-07-2019 10:07 PM by KeithFrench
To get the attached trace, I opened Wireshark, selected "Wi Fi 3", and then clicked connect to connect the USB WiFI adapter to the network. After a suitable duration, during which the WiFi limpralong at well under 1Mb, I hit disconnect and the tracing stopped. Does this get us any further forward?
on 16-07-2019 07:51 PM - last edited on 16-07-2019 10:07 PM by KeithFrench
I have done the netsh commands and the results are as follows:
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17763.615] (c) 2018 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. C:\Users\John>netsh wlan show drivers Interface name: Wi-Fi 3 Driver : Realtek RTL8811AU Wireless LAN 802.11ac USB 2.0 Network Adapter Vendor : Realtek Semiconductor Corp. Provider : Realtek Semiconductor Corp. Date : 28/05/2019 Version : 1030.38.328.2019 INF file : oem4.inf Type : Native Wi-Fi Driver Radio types supported : 802.11n 802.11g 802.11b 802.11ac 802.11n 802.11a FIPS 140-2 mode supported : Yes 802.11w Management Frame Protection supported : Yes Hosted network supported : No Authentication and cipher supported in infrastructure mode: Open None WPA2-Personal CCMP Open WEP-40bit Open WEP-104bit Open WEP WPA-Enterprise TKIP WPA-Personal TKIP WPA2-Enterprise TKIP WPA2-Personal TKIP WPA-Enterprise CCMP WPA-Personal CCMP WPA2-Enterprise CCMP Vendor defined TKIP Vendor defined CCMP Vendor defined Vendor defined Vendor defined Vendor defined WPA2-Enterprise Vendor defined WPA2-Enterprise Vendor defined Vendor defined Vendor defined Vendor defined Vendor defined Wireless Display Supported: No (Graphics Driver: No, Wi-Fi Driver: Yes) C:\Users\John> Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17763.615] (c) 2018 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. C:\Users\John>netsh wlan show interface There is 1 interface on the system: Name : Wi-Fi 3 Description : Realtek RTL8811AU Wireless LAN 802.11ac USB 2.0 Network Adapter GUID : 137d1836-d7c9-4021-bb50-42cc2f4462a3 Physical address : 00:0f:00:66:f0:80 State : connected SSID : buchanet BSSID : 4c:8b:ef:d5:4a:88 Network type : Infrastructure Radio type : 802.11n Authentication : WPA2-Personal Cipher : CCMP Connection mode : Profile Channel : 11 Receive rate (Mbps) : 13 Transmit rate (Mbps) : 13 Signal : 48% Profile : buchanet Hosted network status : Not available C:\Users\John> Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.17763.615] (c) 2018 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. C:\Users\John>netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid Interface name : Wi-Fi 3 There are 1 networks currently visible. SSID 1 : buchanet Network type : Infrastructure Authentication : WPA2-Personal Encryption : CCMP BSSID 1 : 4c:8b:ef:d5:4a:88 Signal : 46% Radio type : 802.11n Channel : 11 Basic rates (Mbps) : 1 2 5.5 11 Other rates (Mbps) : 6 9 12 18 24 36 48 54
The situation seems to occur as soon as the USB Wifi interface is connected to the wifi network. If the USB device is plugged in, but not connected to the LAN, then as you would expect there is no adverse effect on the other devices on LAN.
While was running the netsh commands the PC was frantically thrashing the wifi at speeds of well less then 1Mb, and no other device could get any sort of a look-in. It may not be of any help to you, but I did run another Wireshark trace while it was in that state. I have attached it just in case it would help.
I'll go back to it and see whether I can get any sort of trace which shows the symptoms before and after.
The affected PC is my spare PC. It really doesn't do anything much at all. It's there for my grandchildren when they visit, but in its current state it can't even browse CBeebies!
on 16-07-2019 06:56 PM
One other thing that comes to mind, does this PC upload stuff to OneDrive or Google Backup and Sync? I have certainly had issues with Google Backup and Sync hogging my bandwidth on this PC when it has loads of stuff to upload, that made general browsing incredibly slow. I set a cap on the amount of data per second I wanted it to use & all was fine.
on 16-07-2019 02:54 PM
What I meant was not what date/time the trace was started (I can see that from within it and that it ran for just over 90 secs), but was the date/time that the problem started?
I need the trace to be started before the problem starts & not stopped until after the problem occurs. I am hoping to find what starts this problem happening. If it is only started once the problem is present, I won't see the trigger to it all.
on 16-07-2019 01:55 PM
The date/time for that trace was 15/7/19 around 22.30. The file was saved at 22.37.
I have an opportunity this evening to switch the offending PC on again, and take your next suggested courses of action.
16-07-2019 01:35 PM - edited 16-07-2019 01:37 PM
I have had a quick look through the trace, there does not seem to be anything in it other than normal internet traffic. There is no massive time delay on any packets, but if you can let me know the date & time this happened, I can go to that area of the trace & look in more detail.
There are some malformed packets, but that is normally Wireshark being unable to decode the packet fully, perhaps due to some proprietary protocol implementation.
For the next stage, please can you open a command prompt on the offending PC & issue these commands one at a time, pressing enter after each one and wait for the response. Then copy and paste the output from each into your reply.
netsh wlan show drivers
netsh wlan show interface
netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid
None of these commands will reveal your Wi-Fi password, although other netsh commands will.
Please feel free to PM the results to me, but if you do, please include a link back to this thread, so as I can quickly find it again.
Note I will need to know the names of your wireless networks.
One other thought, but in the case of this PC killing all other devices, I can't really see it affecting anything. Have you disabled power management on the adapter, it could also be worthwhile doing that to the USB port/root hub etc it connects to.
PS I have now proved that you can zip a trace file up & attach the Zip OK to a post.
on 16-07-2019 12:49 PM
Thanks, I have got the trace now. I have removed the link in your post to it, just in case, there is any personal information within the trace. I'll try & have a look at it later today or tomorrow.
on 16-07-2019 07:53 AM - last edited on 16-07-2019 12:47 PM by KeithFrench
Have managed to replicate the error condition, and attached Wireshark trace file.
As the PC was behaving well I gave it some work to do and kept an eye on it. I set it to download the Windows 10 Feature upgrade 1903, and it set off doing it with a download rate of about 10Mbps, which I consider acceptable considering its distance from the router. Then suddenly the rate dropped to less then 1Mbps and the other wifi users were locked out. (Loud shriek of complaint from said user!) I signed off the account, thereby stopping the download, and signed back on. The previously reported error condition then prevailed, so I use Wireshark to capture the situation.
I hope that some light can be shed on the matter.
The forum has spotted that the contents of the trace file does not match the file type, so I have put it here instead
on 15-07-2019 11:42 AM
No probs, whenever.