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WiFi Hub Stats & Performance.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 94 of 94

My wifi hub has now been installed and running for a few days with DLM making no changes, so some sort of interesting stats from the gui that an OCE may want to feed back to the development team.

 

Downstream noise margin is being reported as 0.00 dB.

 

Upstream attenuation is being reported as 0.00 dB.

 

Downstream attenuation is being reported as 25.90 (usually been in the 19-21 range with previous TalkTalk super routers).

 

Upstream max rate exactly 6000 Kbps, actual upstream rate exactly 6000 Kbps, upstream noise margin exactly 6.0 dB. Now these numbers could be correct, but they do look unusually rounded. With HG633 and HG635 my max. upstream was just short of 8 Mbps, so lost performance.

 

But the thing that concerns me is the performance of this "best ever" modem-router.

 

I have listed the upstream performanc loss already.

 

With an HG635 my max. downstream was around 49 Mbps to 50 Mbps. With an actual line rate of 40 Mbps (on the 40/10 package).

 

With an HG633 my max rate dropped to around 43 Mbps, with an actual of around 38 Mbps.

 

With this new wifi hub my max. rate has dropped to 35 Mbps with an actuall of 32 Mbps. This unexpectedly large drop in downstream performance could be linked to the unexpected rise in the downstream attenuation.

 

But having spoken to someone in the faults team they are happy with this performance level as it is still within my predicted range (but massively less than I used to get). It would appear that everytime TalkTalk introduce a "new, improved" router that my performance levels go south.

 

But the wifi is better, although I never had any wifi issues, and this new router didn't resolve the issues I was having with the HG633 with V2.00t firmware.

93 REPLIES 93

AldridgeAndy
Super Duper Contributor
Message 1 of 94

@Gavona 

 

I think you find “Anonymous” is the result of someone deleting their forum profile. So it’s unlikely you’ll get a response. 

 

its known that there are some line stats reporting issues with the WiFi hub and it dislikes line vectoring. The 3782 doesn’t particularly like line vectoring either or some VPN services. The HG633 seems to cope with most things except if you want to upload a reasonable sized file at full available speed and maintain download traffic. 

 

Happy New Year 🥳 

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Message 2 of 94

@Anonymous

Hoping that you could let the community know if you managed to draw any further conclusions?

 

Thanks,
Gavona
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Message 3 of 94

Hi iefbr14,

 

I've passed over all the feedback to our Products Team and I'll let you know once I hear back.

 

Thanks

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 4 of 94

@Michelle-TalkTalk wrote:

Hi iefbr14,

 

I'm happy to pass all of your feedback over to our Products Team which we're very grateful for, I just can't reset DLM again so that you can complete more testing with TR069 enabled, which is why I suggested seeing if the CEO agent could help with this.

 

Thanks

 


@Michelle-TalkTalk

 

Sorry, Michelle, but this is a possible TT firmware issue. I don't think it is up to me to chase the CEO's office to persuade them to allow me to do further testing - which can ony be for TT's benefit.

 

I have flagged this up, I will leave it to TT to investigate or not as they deem fit.

 

 

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Message 5 of 94

Hi iefbr14,

 

I'm happy to pass all of your feedback over to our Products Team which we're very grateful for, I just can't reset DLM again so that you can complete more testing with TR069 enabled, which is why I suggested seeing if the CEO agent could help with this.

 

Thanks

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 6 of 94

@Michelle-TalkTalk

 

The open complaint with the CEO's team is on an entirely different matter, so I don't want to confuse matters with TT's own firmware issues.

 

I have identified what looks like a possible problem with V2.00t firmware on the HG633 and offered to do some free testing to help TalkTalk. Given the HG633's very poor firmware history I sort of thought you may be concerned.

 

But if you aren't interested in progressing this then fair enough. 

 

 

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Message 7 of 94

Hi iefbr14,

 

I can pass over your thread over to our Products Team to see what they say but they won't be able to reset DLM. If you still have an open complaint with the CEO's team then it may be worth asking them if they can reset DLM again for you?

 

Thanks

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 8 of 94

@Michelle-TalkTalk

 

I appreciate the limitations of your authority with regards to BTOR resetting DLM, that's why I finished up involving the CEO's team previously (who did authorise the reset for testing purposes).

  

The firmware development people need to be involved in this as I fully understand there is nothing that the forum OCE's can realistically do in these circumstances.

 

If you escalate this issue to whoever you think may be interested in potential firmware problems and I will wait for contact from whoever (but not holding my breath). 

 

If anything of significance happens I will report back on this thread (if it is still available).

 

p.s. my previous upstream sync was just over 7.5 Mbps, so with an SNR of over 10 (for over 20 days) is looking to be banded, but hopefully DLM may eventually adjust that situation.

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Message 9 of 94

Hi iefbr14,

 

Ah I see, thanks for letting me know. The problem we have is that we can't manually reset DLM for a fibre connection as this is controlled by DLM and any resets have to be requested by a BTOR engineer following there investigation into a fault.

 

The current sync speed is within the predicted speed range for the line so we would be unable to raise this as a slow sync speed fault for investigation. The upstream sync rate also looks consistent, what was this previously prior to the testing?

 

Thanks

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 10 of 94

@Michelle-TalkTalk wrote:

Hi iefbr14,

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Could I just confirm, is this still being looked into by our CEO's office at the moment?

 

Thanks

 


It shouldn't be.

 

The original CEO office intervention was to try and sort out the problem of V2.00t firmware not recognising the availabiliy of Vectoring (makes a difference of around 6 Mbps on my line), I needed DLM reinitialised (not at my potential expense) to test.  HG635 with V1.06t and V1.10t firmware and the HG633 with V1.22.1t firmware all worked, V2.00t didn't (another possible V2.00t problem ?). When that didn't work it was agreed that the only realistic thing left to try was the new wifi hub.

 

When the CEO's office authorised that I told them they may as well close off the complaint, as if it worked great, but if it didn't work then there was nothing the CEO's office could do as that would require the products (devices team) to investigate the issue which (for the HG633) had already been reported via OCE_Karl (I think it was).

 

The wifi hub was a bit of a disaster and was set back for refund (higher up this thread).

 

I do however have an open complaint with the CEO's office, but that is on a different matter.

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Message 11 of 94

Hi iefbr14,

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Could I just confirm, is this still being looked into by our CEO's office at the moment?

 

Thanks

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 12 of 94

@Michelle-TalkTalk

 

A little background.

 

TR069 was by default enabled when I was upgraded to V2.00t. I immediately had some performance issues (vectoring support not recognised) which I was trying to resolve via these forums and the CEO's office (to have DLM on my line reset so that I could test), unfortunately that thread was locked by a CS so could not be progressed. I tried a new wifi hub to see if that would rectify the problem (approved by the CEO's office), it didn't so that was returned, but when I then swapped back to the HG633 that was when I noticed the reducing sync speeds.

 

My sync speed was lowering over time despite no reported issues, outages etc. being evident, the line appeared to be perfectly stable. When the last reset and downward sync movement happened I checked the router logs and noticed that it coincided with remote access to my router being performed (I had no way to check the older logs). So I disabled TR069 and the line speed stabilised and (after 15 days) started to improve. So whatever had been causing my line speed to decrease was no longer evident and DLM (after 15 days) started to improve my line speed.

 

The only action on my part between continually falling speeds and improving speeds was the change to TR069 status (i.e. disabling).

 

At the moment my downstream sync has recovered quite well, now marginally over 34 Mbps (from a low of around 25 Mbps), but my upstream has not adusted at all (although I have very minimal upstream traffic). Upstream sync is now exactly 6000 Kbps, with an SNR of over 10 dB, which would again suggest "banding". 

 

As I have said more testing is indicated, but I am very reluctant to enable TR069 while my line is still showing signs of none optimal performance.

 

If TalkTalk could have my DLM reset so that my performamce returns to its historic norms (~39 Mbps downstream), then (once stabilised) I will enable TR069 to investigate what happens.

 

If the line remains ok then back to head scratching time concerning the reduced performance levels. But if the line again starts to deteriorate I will again disable TR069 and expect TT to commit to having DLM on my line reinitialised.

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Message 13 of 94

Hi iefbr14,

 

Thanks for the additional info and for monitoring. Can I just clarify, as soon as TR069 is enabled, you've noticed that DLM starts to lower the sync speed over time even though the connection looks stable? Once you turned this off the speed then gradually increased again?

 

Thanks

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 14 of 94

@Debbie-TalkTalk

 

Update 26th.

 

DLM kicked in again last night.

 

My downstream line rate is now up to 34086 Kbps.  But slightly strangely with no significant change to my max downstream or downstream SNR.

 

After 15 days of no intervention DLM seems to be now slowly returning my line's performance to what it used to be before I was upgraded to V2.00t firmware.

 

TR069 is still disabled.

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 15 of 94

@Debbie-TalkTalk

 

My HG633 with V2.00t firmware was continually resetting, in an earlier post @Chris-TalkTalk listed resets and multiple retrains. When I checked around 15 or 16 days ago the resets coincided with TR069 remote access to my router. Over time my line speed dropped from high 30's to mid 20's, the pattern of those sync reduction was compatible with DLM trying to stabilise my line because of perceived issues. He stated that these errors had continued for some time, (predating my wifi hub trials, but obviously not relevant to those trials). All the problems were after my upgrade to V2.00t firmware.

 

I disabled TR069 15 days ago and all the resets etc. stopped immediately. For 15 days absolutely no issues, except for the low sync speed, which looking at my router stats seemed to indicate that my line had been banded (lower rate fixed profile) because of the excessive retries and errors etc.. I was getting my normal max. downstream, but a very high SNR and consequently a poor line (sync) speed.

 

Until the early hours of this morning ......................

 

After 15 days (which I believe is a "full" DLM cycle period) my performance was changed for the better.

 

After 15 days with no crashes and no issues DLM has now increased my downstream sync speed to 33978, which I think is the next upwards banding level. My downstream SNR has reduced to closer to the "standard" 6dB.

 

So TR069 enabled, my sync consistantly decreases and multiple issues are reported, disable TR069 my sync speed stabilises and now appears to start to improve.

 

I am still suspicious of the TR069 interaction. The limited testing I have been able to do would appear to indicate a connection between my performance and TR069 activity, at a correlation level potentially beyond simple coincidence, but further testing would seem to be appropriate.

 

As a matter of interest, what sync speed are you now seeing for my line now that it has changed.

 

EDIT - I've just added a speedtest to "My Account" - 31 Mbps using a wireless link.

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Message 16 of 94

Hi iefbr14

 

Just to confirm, when TR069 is enabled your sync speed drops?

 

Thanks

 

Debbie

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 17 of 94

@Debbie-TalkTalk@Chris-TalkTalk

 

Obviously I don't know if your teams are still looking at this, but I have just run another series of performance tests, the downstream results were :-

 

Thinkbroadband -      25.3 Mbps

TalkTalk              -      25.4 Mbps

uSwitch              -      24.8 Mbps

Ookla                 -      25.4 Mbps

Which                -      25.4 Mbps

BBUK                -      25.3 Mbps

 

These are a very consistant set of numbers from a variety of sources. But I would again suggest that these numbers are not practical if my (as reported by yourselves) sync speed is 25.8 Mbps. Any lose to any device would be expected to be significantly greater than that, particularly over wifi.

 

All my tests were done on a wifi connected pc (approx. 12 feet from the router and up a flight of stairs). I do have a "clean" wifi environment in my property, but even so throughput loses are to be expected.

 

Just my opinion, but something doesn't add up.

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 18 of 94

@Debbie-TalkTalk

 

Ok thanks. That confirms the information I am seeing here from the router stats and logs. Except my router still says that I am in sync at 27257 Kbps (confirmed as a more probable value by multiple speed tests).

 

I do not appear to have had any further degredation issues since I disabled TR069. It is possible that my disabling TR069 has helped to stabilise my line by stopping that intrusion and that could indicate a potential bug in V2.00t firmware. I also notice there are others on the forums now reporting this pattern of slowly degrading performace with HG633 and V2.00t firmware.

 

It would be relatively easy to recreate my original performance conditions so that I could then enable TR069 and monitor the effect of that change. Would TT be interesting in performing this testing ?

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Message 19 of 94

Hi iefbr14 

 

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

Your line is showing in sync at 25.8mb. The connection appears to have remained stable since 15/07.

 

Debbie

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Anonymous
Not applicable
Message 20 of 94

@Chris-TalkTalk

 

A few minutes short of 9 days since I disabled TR069 and things from my side are still looking stable, no untowards entries in the router logs.

 

Could you confirm how my line is looking from the stats you have available ?

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