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Future Fibre 150 SIP Configuration Settings

SRear
Popular Poster
Message 31 of 31

Hi I have recently had Fibre 150 installed and all is working. My phone is currently connected to the supplied Phone Adapter (Grandstream HT801). My house phone, (a Siemens Gigaset SL45) is connected to a Siemens N300A IP Base station. The base station is VOIP/SIP compatible. Can TalkTalk please provide me with configuration details or a configuration file for the Fibre 150 VOIP/SIP settings allowing me to configure my N300A IP base station to remove the need for the Grandstream HT801? I have enough boxes and would like to remove one :-). Before my service was installed I could browse to the Grandstream HT801 but it appears once the box auto configured its web interface is disabled so I cant see the configured settings. Any help appreciated - thanks in advance! Regards,  Simon

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30 REPLIES 30

Message 1 of 31

@ferguson You are correct.  A Landline is still used by Credit reference agencies as an indicator of stability.  It's old school, but useful.  I actually don't like contacting trades which only have a mobile number unless I've dealt with them in person before, as the landline seems to suggest more legitimacy - perhaps I should start to see this differently, could be a dinosaur mentality!

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Message 2 of 31

If you port your number in contract, you'll effectively cancel the contract and have to pay exit fees.  Not worth it.  

£7 per month = £84 per year.  Apart from Talktalk calls to another family member on talktalk, my usage on landline is virtually zero, having setup the gigaset to route all non-free calls to voipcheap.com.  have used voipcheap for 10 years, and I think I've spent probably less than £150 in 10 years on calls, mainly to international numbers and some mobiles.  But, since most mobile contract can get you unlimited calls for £5 per month.  the unlimited calls boost is not great value.

 

Sipgate £30 porting fee + no ongoing cost except calls seems like good value for keeping my own number.  Alternatively A&A are £15 porting fee and £1.50 per month ongoing 'rental'.  They do offer things like CallGate which can be setup to 'screen' calls, and anonymous call reject, which is the biggest bug bear I have with current landline.  as soon as I enabled the Talktalk callsafe, my scam calls disappeared.  That may be the likely option for me, as I'm likely to want higher speed internet, and Talktalk are not the cheapest, so even taking account of a 100Mbit symmetric service at Vodafone = £25 (£22 if you have a vodafone sim)  the cheapest talktalk offering is £32.  So, including the phone bit at A&A = £26.50.  still cheaper and you can take a call package with A&A too.

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Message 3 of 31

@SRear That is another important consideration of course: how much does one use the landline and what are the costs?

 

Personally, I rarely use mine at all, it just feels like an "old school" safety net. And I seem to recall that having a landline number gave you extra points with credit reference agencies, presumably indicating in their computers/minds that you weren't some dodgy, transient sort. I wonder if that is still the case?

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Message 4 of 31

@speedygonzalez I like that approach and particularly the mobility of your landline number. I suspect though if you wanted to make out going calls from your land line too, (particularly in areas of poor mobile reception), that it probably gets more expensive than the standard TalkTalk unlimited call boost of £7 a month, for my wife's usage at least 🙂. Worth looking into... I wonder if you can port a number in contract 🤔.

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Message 5 of 31

Good discussion and thanks for the replies. Seems like the SIP settings and credentials are something that most ISP's are not willing to share. BT uses proprietary VoIP, Vodafone and Talktalk not going to disclose setup.  On that basis, I will move forward with the approach to keep my landline number with an alternate provider such as sipgate.

 

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Message 6 of 31

@ferguson 

 

Still looks like £30 to port a UK number to Sipgate, I had never ported a  Landline number before, had little choice at the time, needed to keep the landline when moving my internet connection over to  4G , Sipgate met my needs.

 

I am not up-to-date with OFCOM regulations,and what happening with move to FTTP and impact of VOIP and consumers being able to port landline numbers.

 

In time, I would expect some like  the mobile PAC codes being used when consumers move ISP,  no idea what is being proposed.

 

Note:  Sipgate Basic is Free, no monthly charge to keep the line active, basically its PAYG or you can buy monthly minutes if you need to make lots of outgoing calls. 

 

over past 3 years,  total cost of a voip landline uk number, £40. 

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speedygonzalez
Problem Solver
Message 7 of 31

FTTP is provided to you with an ONT installed converting the GPON fibre onnection to Gigabit Ethernet. All the user can do is plug in a  device, this could be a Single PC, Wireless Router supplied by TalkTalk or a Firewall/Router of the users choice. The important part is there is no end user configuration to access the WAN connection.  The ONT presents an ethernet port, the connected device is served a WAN IP address via DHCP, once the device has an WAN IP, gateway addresss and DNS, you have a connection.  It makes no difference  to TalkTalk what you connect, as all that is passed are IP packets onto their internet.  Key point : no user config to get onto the WAN.

 

Thats exactly what is happening with TalkTalk's Voice Service over FTTP, a preconfigured device ATA or HUB is conneted to the internet   .  It will pick up the VOIP settings as it is provisoned by TalkTalk, once the setup is complete, the device is locked down so users cant change or view settings, that it its, a fancy phone socket! You are free to plug in a wired phone or DECT base station, again NO user config required to use the Phone line.

 

At no point is any of the infrastructure, server setting, user id/password exposed the end user in a FTTP/VOIP scenario.

 

Based on what people have had back from suppport, I don't see this policy changing anytime soon.

 

For those who want the flexibility of using their own VOIP Phone ot ATA, Port out at the end of contract, if you can. 

Otherwise looks like for the forseable future have to  live with another box in your setup if you move to FTTP and need the landline.

 

 

 

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ferguson
Community Star
Message 8 of 31

@speedygonzalez Forgive my earlier erroneous post! £30 seems a bit steep to port an existing number. I wonder if this will still apply when the new Ofcom regulations come into force, or whether independent VOIP providers will have to review their pricing generally? Or even if their days will be numbered?

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Message 9 of 31

@mrwrighty 

I ported out my number to Sipgate , when my old ADSL TalkTalk contract had reached the end, Sipgate charged £30 to port from TalkTalk. I moved to a 4G modem  to provide my internet connection before the phone line was disconnected.  Came back to  TalkTalk when FTTC was made available in my area. The Sipgate line worked perfectly on 4G as it does today on FTTP.
I am very happy with the sipgate VOIP service, don't make any outgoing calls only incoming, think I topped up with a tenner and there is about £8 credit after 2 years,  You have no restrictions when you move between ISPs, its your phone number and you are free use it with as many devices as you need,. I run a Groundwire Client on my mobile phone,  guess you call it a mobile landline number 🙂

ferguson
Community Star
Message 10 of 31

Aha, OK, I see the problem!

 

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Message 11 of 31

@ferguson that's the approach I intended to take before subscribing to the service. However I discovered after subscribing that once the phone adapter connects to the TalkTalk network and auto configures it disables it's own web interface so you don't actually get to see the configured settings. You can browse to the web interface before the adapter connects to the TalkTalk network however the needed configuration information isn't their at this stage. It looks like this behaviour is configured by TalkTalk with the intent of preventing at least casual access to the configuration settings.

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ferguson
Community Star
Message 12 of 31

This has turned into an interesting and measured discussion. Hopefully, as time moves on and we all gain experience of the technologies and devices around FTTP and VOIP/data calling then we will be in a better position to share and pool knowledge. 

 

@SRear In the past, when setting up third-party routers, I have extrapolated settings from the TalkTalk device and transposed them into the settings of my chosen device. Is this not a path possible with the two VOIP adapters? Alternatively, if stuck, I have reached out to the third-party router manufacturer for advice, is that something you might consider with Siemens and their VOIP device? 

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mrwrighty
Super Duper Contributor
Message 13 of 31

@speedygonzalez whilst I agree with the simplicity and support, a locked down adapter as supplied by TalkTalk meets that need, however it should not be a reason not to release the config information for those that require it. As has been said, we can all use our own routers and understand the risk in having little or no support from TalkTalk if we have issues. The same should also apply to VOIP configurations. Most VOIP suppliers make this information available to allow configuration of devices we own on to their services. I agree that VOIP is far more complex to configure, but if someone wants to take that risk, let them. It’s also interesting that you say you have already ported your number away from TAlkTalk, how have you done this on an FTTC circuit as I understood it was a requirement to have the number with TAlkTalk for the services to work.

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Message 14 of 31

Hi speedygonzalez, Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate the points you make however it's not consistent with TalkTalks data service where I can use my own router. I understand the commercial aspects and costs of supporting more diverse hardware and configurations too. However all that happens with my router is that if I have any need to contact support I just install the original equipment provided by TalkTalk before any support can be provided. I have no expectation that TalkTalk need to support my setup.. This approach allows me to use my own equipment without impacting TalkTalk's support costs. I'm reasonably comfortable managing complex network settings since I have a network engineering background, albeit dated.  I could have taken the data only service too but was told I couldn’t keep my current number and at the time never thought of porting it, maybe something to consider at the end of my current contract. I'd hazard a guess though that the costs of separate data only and IP voice services from different vendors would be higher. I'd need to investigate this nearer the end of my current contract. This could be an option for @charlesb224  though. As it stands the actual TalkTalk FTP service does it's job and performs well. Would be a happier customer though if TalkTalk could be consistent with both Voice and Data service provision.

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Message 15 of 31

Hi charlesb224  I ended up chatting with a TalkTalk representative and outcome was that TalkTalk would not release the configuration information I had requested. They stated that "There are important reasons why your home phone needs to be connected to voice adopter. For example its voice quality, advanced functionality and security protection". In my view this is not consistent with TalkTalk's data service for which TalkTalk's same quality, functionality and security protection still apply, arguably more so with data and yet I can use my own router. I logged a compliant around this point and was advised someone would call back me to discuss but disappointingly no one got back.

speedygonzalez
Problem Solver
Message 16 of 31

There is a valid business reason behind TalkTalk not offering "residential" customers the ability to use their own ATA/VOIP Phones with their  service.  The vast majority of residential customers,  just want an internet connection and the ability to make voice calls using their existing phones, Plug and Play, with nothing to configure.  The simplicity of plugging in a phone or DECT base station into the Wifi-Hub 2 or Grandstream ATA, makes sense, its simple and no more difficult than plugging in to an Openreach phone socket.


The locked down model means, no chance of configs being changed and causing technical or support calls, makes rolling out new features, service management and firmware updates far simpler.  For the customers who have/want to use their own kit ATA/VOIP Phones, I can see the frustration, it is simply configuration of a device.  From TalkTalk's perspective, they would need to be able to support many different configurations, multiple permutations of  ATA/VOIP devices/firmware settings, this offers  no commercial advantage on a residential service.   


I  use CityFibre's ONT connected to my own router,  I don't use the TalkTalk phone service, ported my number out a few years ago from TalkTalk to Sipgate (when I changed ISP),  back with TalkTalk FTTC and now FTTP .  I use a Grandstream HT802 ATA, the initial setup was not easy, took a little trial and error to get it working perfectly.  I know that I have to support myself, no expectation on TalkTalk to support these. 

 

As someone who prefers to use and manage my own network and comms kit, I fully understand @SRear  is coming from, but I can see TalkTalks take on this too.  As they say, a picture is worth a Thousand words, see below an  example of Sipgate settings page for one phone line on a Grandstream ATA. 

This is probabaly why TalkTalk have locked the service down.

Note: Old pic but gives you the idea of complexity and scope for error if you misconfigure settings.

HT701sip_basic.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 17 of 31

Did you get any response to your complaint?  I too have a gigaset and what's. Holding me back from a 'free' fibre upgrade is inability to use my own ATA.  I will be switching away from talk talk at renewal in August if they cannot allow me to use my own ATA. A&A and Sipgate can both port numbers to a VoIP only service, leaving me free to pick a data only fibre service from probably Vodafone unless talktalk move on this.

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Message 18 of 31

Thanks @ferguson  I will log a complaint.

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Message 19 of 31

Hi @Zaf687  no price didn't go up for me with my upgrade, I did have to enter into another 2 year contract though.

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mrwrighty
Super Duper Contributor
Message 20 of 31

Well said @SRear Most of those who decide to use kit other than that provided by TalkTalk accept that they are on their own when it comes to configuration and support. Many users prefer their own routers for various reasons. VOIP is as easy to set up as a router as long as you have the relevant details.I use VOIP extensively in business and never had a VOIP provider not supply the relevant configs required. This is a poor business decision by TalkTalk.

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