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When will TalkTalk support IPv6

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davmil50
Wizz Kid

Well Here we are on the 28th March 18 :

Still NO Word about IPV6 comming from TT.

In the Mean time , there Basic Faster broadband ( LOL) 

Is failing yet again problem :

BT have not joined my copper cable to fibre ,Still copper to copper,

To Force this :

I need to take out fibre package:

or :

go to an other supplier, That does supprt IPV6??? ( Costing)

speculatrix
Team Player

"go to an other supplier, That does supprt IPV6??? ( Costing)"

 

problem is that TT and Plusnet and the cheapest really don't charge enough money to be able to give good customer service and have more resilient networks.

 

consider that minimum working wage is over £7/hour, so it probably costs TT over £14 an hour to have a customer service person. if you incur just a half hour's customer service in a month, you've cost them the entire profit on your broadband that month.

 

hence why Zen and A&A who can offer static IPv4 and IPv6, and maintain speed and latency and offer good customer service simply can't charge the bottom bucket rate of TT.

 

aoxm84
Problem Solver

Sky have IPv6 on all their connections, it's sticky rather than static but this doesn't bother me. Their service is good enough that I've never needed to contact customer services, and they're only a little bit more expensive than TT and Plusnet.

davmil50
Wizz Kid

Hi spex.

Sorry about shorting of login but hey copy and past dont work anymore !!

any way as to paying staff, not a Hope do the good people of the Phillipiens or South Africa get that kind of pay:

Hence NO UK call centre's as to IPV 6 roll out (Never)

as to my complaint TT are 2nd lowest on ofcom list of ISP's 

David

aviator
Conversation Starter

My 633 router has ipv6 on dhcp.

I had to disable it because of probs with iOS.

stoatgobbler
Super Duper Contributor
I think it's time some TalkTalk customers took the nuclear option. Misleading advertising complaints to the ASA and or their local trading standards. "Unlimited" internet or broadband most certainly isn't if IPv6 isn't being offered. I've sent in my complaint.
"OK, now you need to reboot your computer. .... Um, sir, please stop kicking it."
www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/helldeskcable.html~content
speculatrix
Team Player

well, we left TT because the cheap deal ended - and are now with PlusNet, and have exactly the same problem.

meanwhile, primary internet circuit with Zen is working just fine with IPv6 😉

IPv4Mall
First Timer

There are countless people and organization who still prefer using IPv4 even though IPv6 is quickly establishing itself as a robust industry. There has been much debate about whether migrating to IPv6 is a good idea.Knowing the major differences between ipv4 and ipv6 helps you choose the best that suits your needs.

speculatrix
Team Player

The article on ipv4mall is mostly useless for the audience here, they're not making complex networks and working out routing tables.

The article is also overly simplistic, probably not really helpful to anyone. Seems really to be an attempt to promote the web site.

speculatrix
Team Player

-deleted-

aoxm84
Problem Solver

I think the username "IPv4Mall" demonstrates exactly why IPv6 is badly needed, IP addresses should be freely available to those who need them, not traded for large sums of money.

 

"The only remaining large UK broadband ISP which has not publicly stated any IPv6 plans is TalkTalk" - UK IPv6 Council

stoatgobbler
Super Duper Contributor

"As the new COO in TalkTalk I did want to post a quick message and we will followup in the coming months with more information on this important topic."

 

2.5 years later and STILL no IPv6

Over 5 YEARS since the thread started.

"OK, now you need to reboot your computer. .... Um, sir, please stop kicking it."
www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/helldeskcable.html~content
speculatrix
Team Player

 

Plusnet are in a similar situation.

I found the oldest thread on their forum about ipv6 which was 8.5 years old, and I added "over eight years and nothing to show for it".. And a Plusnet person simply closed the thread!

stoatgobbler
Super Duper Contributor

The oldest thread (that I know of) here dates back to 2011: 

 

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Product-Archive/IPv6-day/m-p/587157

 

‎08-06-2011 10:04 AM Post 1 of 7
IPv6 day
I have just read the following article www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4687-world-ipv6-day-8th-june-2011.html Any info on whether TTwill implement IPV6?

 

The following Jun (8 June 2012), IPv6 was officially launched as a Core Internet Protocol

3 years later in June 2015, IPv4 was declared in "Sunset" phase of withdrawal proceedings - meaning that no new IPv4 protocols or deployments should be made.

 (ie: Put a fork in it, it's done)


The next step is deprecation, which is where there is no requirement for ISPs or core networks to carry IPv4 anymore.

Interestingly, I found this:  http://www.broadbanduk.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/BSG-Open-Internet-Code-2016.pdf


Which is an update of the 2012 code that all BSP (broadband service prividers) signed into - this is the Ofcom updated one that _ALL_ ISPs were told to sign or face regulations being introduced.

The germane parts are these:

Glossary: 
Full internet access / internet access service: a service which permits
a consumer to access any content, application and service lawfully available on the internet. It
is the principle by which ISPs convey all traffic on equal terms.
Providing such a service does not affect an ISP’s ability to deploy
reasonable and proportionate traffic management practices over their networks.

 

This pretty much makes it clear that "FULL" access includes IPv6 despite it not being explicitly spelled out. It was worded to nail down Three and EE when they were offering limited website access in 2006-2009 and calling it "Internet access"

 

You can read about the mechanations here (and how Ofcom was publicly humiliated after claiming there was no problem):  https://www.manchesteropenhive.com/view/9781526105479/9781526105479.00026.xml   (despite the com address this is an archive at manchester university)

 

The important bit:

 

Commitment 1 – Support for an Open Internet

Commitment 1 means that all signatories to this Code will ensure that products that support full internet access, i.e. services that permit a user to access any content, applications and/or service(s) that are lawfully available on the internet are the norm within their portfolio of products.
Under Commitment 1, full internet access is provided subject to exceptions set out in the EU Regulation and in this Code.

 

The exceptions relate to court orders/government sanctioned filters (porn filters, etc)

It's possible an ISP could try to claim that IPv6 "isn't part of their normal portfolio", but that waltzes them straight into admitting they're not offering full internet access.

And if they're not offering full internet access, then they're making misleading advertising claims by claiming to be an Internet provider (Fair Trading laws/Unfit for the purpose for which it is purported to be sold)  and that opens a HUGE can for legal worms - far more than a simple breach of the BSG Code of Open Internet Access....

I wrote about it here in 2012 too:  https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Product-Archive/IPv6-Query/m-p/728143


Sooo, there's enough there to chat to your local county Trading Standards people about false advertising and see if there's some traction.


Ofcom's official response recently was:  

With reference to the advertising of services, I should advise that
Ofcom does not regulate the advertising sector, however we would
expect all providers to ensure their advertising or literature is not
misleading and complies with any relevant regulations. The regulation
of this area is the responsibility of the Advertising Standards
Authority (ASA). If the ASA upholds a complaint, it has the power to
order an advert to be changed or withdrawn altogether. For further
advice, or to lodge a complaint, you can contact the ASA on: 0207 492
2222, or visit their website at:...


And the ASA have looked at it but pointed out the BSG CoP is an agreement between ISPs and Ofcom, so they don't really want to get involved (besides which, the ASA isn't actually a regulator and has zero statutory powers, the dirty secret is that it's a voluntary association setup by newspapers to stave off Ofcom's predecessor when too many porn line ads were running in the back page classifieds)

 

Despite that, and the lack of IPv6 being an arguable breach of the Comittment, Ofcom's official line is:
 

I should start by reiterating what my colleagues advised of you during
your phone conversation, which is that it is outside of Ofcom’s remit
to force providers use a particular protocol. We do however, continue
to monitor the progress being made by providers in supporting IPv6 and
we recognise that IPv6 could play a pivotal role in supporting
connections between a greater number of devices. I understand you were
advised to look at Ofcom’s Connected Nations report from 2015 for more
information, you can find this report at:

Which is full of wishy washery handwavery about how great Ofcom is and how they're going to make so much money selling off surplus government IPv4 space....

 

"OK, now you need to reboot your computer. .... Um, sir, please stop kicking it."
www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/helldeskcable.html~content
ferguson
Community Star

Wow, amazing that we can all still access the internet, how is that happening then?

stoatgobbler
Super Duper Contributor

Can you access http://loopsofzen.uk/ from your talktalk connection? (WITHOUT jumping through tunnelling hoops)

 

If you can't, then you DON'T have "full internet access" as defined in the glossary of the BPG code of open internet access agreement - and which TalkTalk is a signatory to.

 

A walled garden may have windows. In this case the walls are growing due to TT's inaction and the view of the outside world is "only" partially restricted but the walls still exist. As time goes by the IPv4 view of the world will become steadily more restricted. 

There are already a few hundred commercial asian sites you can't reach (a good chunk of them in India, but more in Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam(*) and Cambodia), along with the High speed IPv6-only EU, USA and Chinese academic networks - which _I_ need for my work committments.

Most of SE Asia has fewer than 1 IPv4 address per 10,000 people, so they HAVE to deploy IPv6 for servers - and if you've even been there and been accessing the IPv4 Internet behind 4-5 layers of CGNAT you'll know how awful it is.

Vietnam was originally assigned 256 IP addresses for the _entire_ country - and that wasn't unusual. When I setup networking in the Cook Islands in 1993 we only got the same number of addresses for the entire country - ~35,000 people - it eventually grew to 1024 IP addresses.


"It works for me, therefore it isn't a problem" isn't a valid response and is a good indication of spending too much time being a medieval leatherworker.

"OK, now you need to reboot your computer. .... Um, sir, please stop kicking it."
www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/helldeskcable.html~content
speculatrix
Team Player

Wow, amazing that we can all still access the internet, how is that happening then?

"we" .. "all".. this is from your little bubble of the internet in the UK, and it's only because the UK internet providers hoarded IP addresses that IPv4 works for you quite well. Now they're running short, you'll soon get to experience the mess of broken double NAT etc, and wonder why things don't always work.
NAT was only ever a temporary bodge, the internet was designed to make everything routable, and IPv6 restores routability.
ferguson
Community Star

Hey, if it breaks I will have cause for complaint, of course. In the meantime feel free to carry on posting without the condescending personal comments. That means you too @stoatgobbler.

speculatrix
Team Player

hey, sorry @ferguson we didn't mean to have a go at you, just this whole situation is so frustrating.

 

My main connection is with Zen, I switched to them when they started to offer ipv6 on domestic broadband. Before then I was with Fidonet, and before that M247 who bought the isp I was using called webtapestry... all with dual stack v4 and v6 for more than eight years now. In the early days things were a bit iffy but now it all just works.

 

BT switched on dual stack. Sky were the first big ISP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoqGvZr4Uto  ). It's not like TalkTalk and Plusnet would be inventing anything new, it's all tried and trusted technology.

 

So if we're frustrated, it's with TalkTalk.

ferguson
Community Star

@speculatrix That's cool, thanks.