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Internet channels “SCHEDULING PROBLEM”

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Chatterbox

Hello TalkTalk,

 

Can someone help please I’m having massive problems scheduling the recording of programs from internet TV channels.

 

Every day I find that one or more (sometimes all) of programs scheduled for recording from the internet show a white triangle with the caption “SCHEDULING PROBLEM”, it only affects internet channels I’ve never see this on normal broadcast channels.

 

I’ve posted a request for help on the YouView forum (please see - https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/7605764/internet-channels-scheduling-problem#latest) and Sarah said I should contact you.

 

Thank you

 

Walter McKie

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Community Star

Hi @wmckie20 

 

What can you record on your TalkTalk TV box? 

 

Non-fibre customers are restricted to recording one subscription boost channel at a time. Whereas fibre customers will be able to record two subscription boost channels at the same time.

 

A scheduling error normally happens if there's an overlap in time in the subscription programme timing.

 

Give us an example of what you're attempting please.

 

Please do a quick check that your Community Profile includes in Personal Information (Click here) your name, current TalkTalk landline 'phone number and an alternate number (mobile recommended) and address with postcode (location). Then scroll down to Private notes to add any relevant other notes and finally save changes.

 

TalkTalk's Community Team OCE will then locate your registered TalkTalk details and follow up from Monday onwards.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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Community Star

...just to follow up with a bit of extra detail and diagnosis.

 

I can see from your ISP config that you are a TalkTalk fibre customer. So, no problem in being able to record two channels at one time and for those two channels to be subscription Boost channels.

 

Your description on the YouView Community says that the notified conflict in scheduling of a recording doesn't necessarily happen straight away. Can happen several days later, you say.

 

My diagnosis of this scenario is that the broadcaster's programme identification is identifying a repeat transmission as the recording you set up. And there's a conflict in recording timing detected by the record scheduling software for that follow up programme even though it's already been recorded.

 

We have seen examples of programmes being recorded multiple times because of identification failures. The fault is normally assumed to be with the broadcaster but equally it could be with the box software. I see your Humax box software is fully up to date and you've factory reset so you've done all you can at your end. 

 

We just need some practical examples to follow up with to get a more refined diagnosis.

 

PS Don't forget to update your Community Profile.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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Community Star

Hi @Gondola  @wmckie20 

 

I too find this happening sometimes on my Humax box, I have raised it to YV who are "investigating" the problem.

 

The strange thing is that the items seem to record. On mine there are no clashes.

 

I'm assuming that you mean like the attached photo.

 

tv recordings.jpg

If this has helped and solved your problem, please mark it as Best Answer so that OCE's or others do not spend time looking for alternatives.
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Community Star

Hi @fre55die 

 

Thanks for sharing your scheduling. The Air Crash Investigation stands out as being unrelated to any other. Is this a repeat transmission maybe? i.e. already recorded.  Perhaps you'd like to comment on that?

 

However, the programmes scheduled for 17th and 19th show notifications of scheduling clashes because there are scheduling clashes according to the box software.  On both days there are 3 programmes scheduled for recording at 9pm. The software flags up the Boost recordings in this example.

 

This a normal expected notification. OK, your brain says NO!... I have a programme that will record up to 9pm and then two others to follow on. But the software isn't programmed with that level of intelligence. As you can see the terrestrial recordings are taking priority and then the Boost channel recordings that have a 'potential' scheduling clash are both flagged up with notifications.

 

I'm expecting that the recordings will take place as there's no 'hard' clash. On 16th the Now/Next junction for the terrestrial programme will trigger the stop recording as normal. I'd expect a Boost channel recording to then take over the record stream previously occupied by the terrestrial channel. 

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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Community Star

@Gondola 

 

No, the AIR CRASH is an unrecorded episode and the 17th and 19th ones are 2 IP channels at the same time and "Freeview" recordings at different times.

 

This is a bad example as my other Humax has the same problem often when only one programme is scheduled. As I say YV are confused by it as it has been ongoing for some time.

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Community Star

Hi @fre55die 

 

When YouView work out why a single Boost programme has a notification error on the Humax TV box I'm sure they'll put out a maintenance release of software to fix the bug.

 

Yes, maybe the 16th and 19th scheduled recordings aren't a great example but you've just given a great example of how people perceive that there's no scheduling clash when there actually is a potential scheduling clash with 3 recordings at 9pm.

 

What YouView could consider as a software fix, to remove the notifications in this example, is to have the record chain scheduling deduct one second from the scheduled end time of the outgoing programme(s) and then decide whether there's a recording clash or not. This would remove the clash notifications only.  It would not however prevent a clash if the outgoing programme overran and the Now/Next junction was delayed and hence the stop recording trigger for that programme was delayed.

 

Pragmatically, I think YouView would say it's probably best to flag up a potential clash to give the customer an opportunity to decide whether to manually reschedule a recording slot or take a risk that all programmes will run to time.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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Chatterbox

Hi Gondola & fre55die,

 

Thank you for your responses.

 

Gondola:

 

I’ve completed Personal Information as you suggested.

 

Currently because of the uncertainty that recordings will take place I’m not doing any series linked requests at all, only single episode recordings, I’m effectively doing series links manually. What happens is daily I check the schedule for anomalies, fix if needed, and input requests for the next episode the following week, at this point the schedule will look fine but when I check the list some time later then the problem can be apparent.

 

Usually when the problem occurs I delete the offending item then reschedule the single episode for the same date/time, however it does happen that when I check the schedule list some time later then the problem can reoccur on the same program. This scenario of setting up an episode request then seeing the problem and fixing it can occur several times up to the point where the program records. As long as I keep checking and rescheduling then I do get the recordings.

 

I’m attaching a couple of screen shots I took a couple of weeks ago which show two single episode requests that exhibit the problem, and what happened when I didn’t delete the failed request first, it shows the same two requests both with a fail and one that’s OK.

 

fre55die:

 

Sorry that you’re having the same problem, but on the other hand it’s good to know I’m not the only one.

 

Could you clarify for me, you say that the recordings still go ahead, do you delete the offending item and put it in again or do you just leave them alone.

 

Thanks

 

Walter

 

YV1.jpg

YV2.jpg

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Community Star

@wmckie20 

 

Hi Walter

 

I just leave them alone now and set them to record on another box if important.

If this has helped and solved your problem, please mark it as Best Answer so that OCE's or others do not spend time looking for alternatives.
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Community Star

Hi wmckie20 

 

I'm assuming that the Humax software is able to recognise the ISP config and that for TalkTalk fibre customers the TV Box does recognise that there are two IPTV streams that it can send to the record chains?

 

Your scheduled recordings of two IPTV subscription Boost channels at the same time with no other apparent conflicts should be accepted.

 

Makes me wonder if there's a software bug in the YouView software for Humax that's subtracting 1 (or more) from the allowed Boost recording count whenever the scheduled recordings are analysed at some time after the recordings are first accepted? 

 

i.e. Two Boost recordings are permitted for TalkTalk fibre customers but on a follow up analysis a notification appears regarding a clash because the notification bug is allowing only one recording. One Boost recording should be good but on a follow up analysis a notification appears because the notification bug is allowing no recordings. Just me tying up the scenarios for both boxes. The actual recordings should go ahead if it's just a notification bug. 

 

@fre55die You may wish to try the effect of adding a recording to tomorrow to record another boost channel at the same time as or with an overlapping time to Air Crash Investigation. It may be necessary to delete and add the two Boost channels back into the recording schedule to remove the notification from Air Crash Investigation.

 

OR to delete and record on another box the 'potentially' overlapping BBC Two channel for 16th to see what effect that has on the notifications for the two simultaneous Boost channels.

 

Depends on how well the software has been coded as to whether the notifications once issued have the flags for those notifications reset on a follow up scheduling analysis. It may be necessary to delete all three scheduled programmes and add back just the two simultaneous Boost channels to appreciate the full effect of the scheduling notifications.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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@wmckie20

 

Walter

 

Please keep an eye on the YV site regularly and if any other Humax users are suffering with this problem, PLEASE add your comments on the YV forum like Walter has done as until they know that there is a problem they can't do anything about it.

If this has helped and solved your problem, please mark it as Best Answer so that OCE's or others do not spend time looking for alternatives.
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Chatterbox

Hello again,

 

fre55die:

 

Thanks for the clarification, that’s very interesting, it didn’t occur to me not to delete the offending schedule item, I’ll try what you've done and see what happens and report the results. As luck would have it at the moment my schedule list is clear of anomalies but I’m sure that there will be one along soon.

 

So it looks like there are two problems: firstly there’s whatever causes the “Scheduling Problem” which must get resolved otherwise the recording would not go ahead, secondly after the “Scheduling Problem” has been resolved the entry in the schedule list isn’t being revised to reflect this.

 

Gondola:

 

I agree with you that there’s a bug(s) in the YouView software.

 

 

I have some further information (and a theory) which might be useful:-

 

I can be quite precise about when this problem started. Last year there was a problem where the MyTV/Scheduled recordings list had disappeared (see: https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/comment/19001120) I first noticed the problem with the white triangle and the caption “SCHEDULING PROBLEM” on the same day that the update with the fix for the empty list was downloaded and installed. I saw a few more instances of this but programs that I wanted to record came to an end so I didn't report this at that time.

 

I’ve noticed that if I browse the EPG I get a different experience with internet channels compared with FreeView channels. When skipping through FreeView channels there is a very brief delay before the program details appear, skipping through internet channels the caption “No Information Available” is displayed for about 2 seconds then the program details appear. Sometimes the “No Information Available” caption doesn't go away but skipping back a day then forward works, so it looks like something occasionally causes access to EPG data to fail.

 

My theory (this is pure speculation as I don't know what the YouView software actually does):-

 

I guess that periodically the scheduled recordings list must be being compared to the EPG, if the data from the EPG fails (as described above) would it throw the “SCHEDULING PROBLEM” warning. Subsequent access to the EPG could be successful which would account for the recordings going ahead as described by fre55die.

 

Hope this all helps.

 

Walter

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Community Star

@wmckie20 

 

I do wonder if there is a TT bug in the configuration with Humax boxes, as there do not seem to be any BT complaints about it and there are relatively few TT users using these boxes.

 

I do not seem to get this problem on my Huawei box although I don't use it very often.

If this has helped and solved your problem, please mark it as Best Answer so that OCE's or others do not spend time looking for alternatives.
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Chatterbox

Hi @fre55die & @Gondola,

 

Apologies for the delay in updating, I’ve been waiting for a couple of programs with the “SCHEDULING PROBLEM” to record to see if I get the same result that fre55die described by not deleting and re imputing. I’m happy to say that the two programs did record, so the problem I’m experiencing is the same.

 

I’d been assuming that the messages indicated a complete failure so the problem is not as bad as I thought. I did notice in both instances a few hours before the recording was due that the white triangle with the “SCHEDULING PROBLEM” caption disappeared and everything looked normal (see pictures).

 

There obviously is a bug in the software and I'm dismayed that no one in any of the support teams at YouView, TalkTalk or Humax (I emailed Humax support for help) could be bothered to respond positively, investigate and offer a solution. The next bug we find in the system might be a lot more serious and given this experience no-one will be willing to help.

 

I’m particularly unhappy with TalkTalk because they didn’t bother to respond at all and they are the ones that we pay for this service. It seems as if we’re being discriminated against and abandoned just because we – quite legitimately - chose to use a Humax device. Even if TalkTalk aren’t directly able to fix the problem they should have in place mechanisms to report these issues to the other responsible parties and to get results for their paying customers.

 

I’ve decided that due to the lack of response I’m going to escalate this via TalkTalk’s complaint procedures.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Walter.

 

YV4.jpg

YV5.jpg

YV6.jpg

YV7.jpg

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Community Star

Hi Walter

 

I have reescalated to TalkTalk.

 

The advisory notification seems to me to be purely that and in the case of your scheduled recordings did not result in any recording failures.

 

I imagine that all TalkTalk can do is refer to its own TV Trials team for their view and for the Humax specific issue back to YouView for a comment on the underlying software logic that triggers the advisory notification.

 

We're agreed there is a non-critical software bug, particularly in the case of a single Boost channel recording receiving the advisory, but realistically it's a YouView responsibility to deliver a fix and they may well have a fix in the pipeline.  Did you get a YouView update?

 

We'll all be interested to find out.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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Community Star

Hi @Gondola 

 

I first reported this to YV back in August and they made sounds but, it just went quiet from them. I suppose that back then nobody else had reported it because it was a Humax box on the TT system.

 

I haven't seen any reports of it on Huawei boxes or Humax boxes on BT connections, it seems to be only IP channels hence my thoughts that it may be a TT configuration problem similar to that which I have had in the past.

If this has helped and solved your problem, please mark it as Best Answer so that OCE's or others do not spend time looking for alternatives.
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Community Team - TT Staff

Hi

 

I'll flag this to our teams, and they can highlight to the youview teams.

 

I've never seen a report of the scheduling error before, only the failed recording.

 

A lot of people are working from home or in isolation for many organisations currently so wheels may not be turning as quickly as the normally would, but I will flag this.

 

Thanks  

 

Karl. 

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Chatterbox

Hello everyone,

 

@OCE_Karl

 

Thank you for taking an interest, as it turns out the information provided by @fre55die has shown me that this is not as serious a problem as I’d thought so I’m not expecting an immediate solution especially given the current situation with the Covid-19 lock-down. I would like to be informed of any developments and if you need further information please contact me.

 

As far as I know this started occurring last year at about the same time as there was a problem where the scheduled list was empty even though recordings were going ahead. I’ve reported this via the YouView forum twice – the first time got absolutely no response at all – and there are at least two other reports.

 

Further information:

 

Now that I know that programs do record OK I thought I’d go back to scheduling series links on the internet channels. On Sunday I noticed something odd with a scheduled recording of Magnum PI on SkyOne at 08:00pm. You may have noticed that sometimes when a series recording is first set up it will show up twice in the list – the next program due and the one after that – Magnum PI initially had two entries but on Sunday afternoon the program due a week away showed the white triangle and the entry for that night disappeared, however the recording did go ahead.

 

@Gondola

 

Thank you for escalating this, YouView have not made any further comment since 13th March when Sarah advised me to post on this forum.

 

As a matter of interest how did you go about escalating this, is that something that I could do in the future? I do have other issues that I’d like to highlight.

 

@fre55die

 

Thanks for your input, I think that all we can do now is continue to monitor this thread and ask for updates until a resolution is developed.

 

 

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Community Star

@wmckie20 wrote:...Gondola..Thank you for escalating this, YouView have not made any further comment since 13th March when Sarah advised me to post on this forum.  As a matter of interest how did you go about escalating this, is that something that I could do in the future? I do have other issues that I’d like to highlight.

Hi Walter

 

Topics started in the Help with your service forums will normally appear in the TalkTalk Community Support Team's workflow. Community Stars can escalate into the workflow with their observations to help push the process along. 

 

All you need to do is start a new topic for each fault or issue that you'd like help with.  Predictably, it's a bit busy at present.  So if you can use the top of forum Search for the answer first to see if the subject has been discussed before that would be good.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

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Chat Champion

I have been following this thread with interest as I have had the same issues.

I have a Humax T-2000 box and as well as the small white triangle, there is also a 'scheduling problem' message. I always check when this happens and there isn't any clash of recordings.

I did think that this was a problem with the Humax boxes and so I re-installed my original TalkTalk DN-372T to check.

Lo and behold, exactly the same problem with the internet channels.I have now gone back to my Humax.

This does show that it isn't a sole Humax issue and perhaps more digging is necessary?

Tim