Slow download speed from some services despite fast connection

[nophead]

Hello,

   I have a solid ADSL connection speed of 55.37 Mbps and I can play youtube videos,  watch HD TV catchup services and Netflix without any problems. However at some times of day near race weekends I can't watch MotoGP and WorldSBK at HD resolution.  Sometimes it is low res which looks like an impressionist oil painting! 

When I investigate actual download speeds I get widely varying results depending on the test provider.  Google home says I have a lightning fast connection and reports 50.2 Mbps. Fast.com powered by Netflix always reports a reasonable speed as well, currently 53 Mbps. It varies between about 40 and 55.

However when I have a problems with MotoGP Which's speed test can be as  lows as 2 Mbps to 5 Mbps and www.speedtest.net can show similar slow speeds as well, although on good days they show much higher speeds, closer to the actual line rate.

I have been in contact with Dorna and after a long email conversation they offered a refund but no fix. They say only a small number of their customers have this problem. I have looked at the bandwidth used by Dorna videos and it is about 6 Mbps, so about 4 times other HD video services but that should not be a problem for a 55M bps connection.  I can watch other HD services at the same time and it doesn't make the Dorna feed any worse. So I do have plenty of bandwidth, just not to Dorna.

So what is Which's speed test doing that sees such slow download speeds, that only affect Dorna's videos? It seems like some part of the internet has a slow connection to Talktalk but other parts are always fast.

A traceroute shows the Dorna videos come from an Amazon server in Seattle via 19 hops, lots taking around 100ms. 

[nophead]

I wrote a batch file to run the Ookla speed test every five minutes. At around 6:30 this morning one test was only 6.83 Mbps but 5 minutes later it was back to 48.61 and 5 minutes after that it was back to normal.

Download: 53.96 Mbps
Download: 6.83 Mbps
Download: 48.61 Mbps
Download: 53.65 Mbps

I will write a more sophisticated Python script to show more information and leave it running.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

Ok thanks for confirming.

Thanks

[nophead]

It didn't slow down this evening (Tues) so perhaps something got fixed. I will see what happens tomorrow evening.

[nophead]

No I don't want a new router because I don't want my VPN to stop working. Please can you explain how it could possibly be a router issue?  How could a router give fast access to your cache servers all the time and slow access to the rest of the internet only when the internet connection from the UK is busy? It doesn't make logical sense. I am only using the router as an ADSL Modem. That part of it works well. It always stays connected at 56 Mbps and gets good speed to your cached servers. They are upstream from the server at the exchange it connects to. The problem is upstream of that.

Please could somebody else in the Manchester area please run the Talktalk or Which speed test at 8pm. Most people won't notice unless they do or use video sites that are not cached. The effect on a non-video web site it subtle. The pictures draw a bit slower than you would expect with a 50 Mbit connection but at 2 Mbps normal web sites are still usable. For years I had a 2 Mbps connection before fibre to the cabinet and I could still watch video. Most HD video uses less than 2 Mbps but Dorna's needs about 6 Mbps. Even when I have a slow connection reported by your speed test I can watch as many HD videos as I want simultaneously if they are services you cache. Your internet caches are faking a good connection to the world wide internet.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hello,

My apologies, I thought I read in your thread that we have sent one. Would you like us to send a replacement router for testing purposes just to see how this compares? If it was specifically related to the servers, I would again expect to see more reports specifically about this. This is also something that the incident team would check. I've also just checked with a different team to see if there has been an increase in any reports in your area, but they have confirmed that they haven't see any. 

Thanks

[nophead]

The congestion is in your servers, not in my link or the exchange. After the power down the route was through different Talktalk servers but only for a few days. I can't be switching off for half an hour every few days. With Shell energy I never had to power off the router. I could stay connected for more than 60 days without any slowdown when the connection was solid and that has been the case for many years. Before that I was with BT and had no problems.

Not sure why you say I have tried different routers. I have only had one from you but it isn't a router problem because Fast.net powered by Netflix  always shows fast speeds. Why would a router slow down access to the internet only when the internet is busy but still give fast access to your cached video servers? The fact I always have a fast connection to Netflix, etc,  means there is nothing wrong at this end, or at the exchange. It somewhere along the path to the internet for non-cached content.

I feel like this conversation is just going round and round in circles. Nobody at Talktalk can apply logical reasoning to a problem like this. The only person that I have spoken to that could said "it is was it is" and won't be fixed.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

Ok thanks for confirming. The reason I ask is because if there was peak time congestion affecting your connection then powering down the router for a full 30 minutes usually wouldn't have any effect as the congestion would be constant. If the router reboot/power down resolves it for a short period then this usually indicates a possible router issue, however I can see in your previous posts that you have tried 2 different routers. 

Our network engineers who also checked this couldn't see any congestion issues. Usually when it is peak time congestion then we would normally see a few more customers also report the same issues at the same time. 

Thanks

[nophead]

There is no noise on the line and the connection is rock solid at 56.05 Mbps for 31 days. I had a new cable to the cabinet when I was with Shell.

I did try the router off for 30 minutes and it did seem OK for a few days but that might have been because I didn't test at the correct times. When I first raised this complaint, more than 31 days ago, it did seem worse in that the periods when it slowed down seemed longer.

When I did power off for 30 minutes my new connection was to the same host at the same speed as before but the traceroute did go through different Talktalk servers on its way to Which's. That route reverted after a few days, so maybe it is a few rogue servers. However I can't be switching my router off for 30 minutes when I am in Tenerife or in the middle of watching something. It is definitely a Talktalk infrastructure problem, so you should be switching your servers on and off.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

Can I just confirm, does the speed/performance still improve if you power down the router for a full 30 minutes when this happens?

Thanks

[nophead]

The next steps would more, or more powerful servers, or perhaps a higher capacity connection to the internet backbone. This is probably why the guy on the phone said "it is what it is". If so I think you are in breach of contract and I will have to move to another provider that has better network infrastructure.

Not sure why it is problem now and wasn't during the pandemic when more people worked from home and the internet demand was a bit higher I think. I was with Shell Energy then but they used TalkTalk as the provider, so I wasn't expecting anything to get worse when I switched in May. I noticed in June that my VPN to my apartment in Tenerife has slowed from 6 Mbps to 2 Mbps when our upload speed was slightly higher and our download speed considerable higher. Since the Tenerife connection is over 40 Mbps in either direction the limitation should be the upload speed here, which is always around 6 Mbps. 

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

Ok, I've passed this back to our faults escalation team and asked what the next steps are.

Thanks

[nophead]

Not it isn't just one site that is affected. All access to the non-cached version of the internet slows down, even your own speed test. It is just that 2 Mbps is fast enough for most static web pages, although I do notice pictures being slow to load. But it isn't fast enough for HD video from Dorna but you cache all the more popular video sites, so people don't notice. Have you even tried running the Talktalk speed test around 8pm on a weekday?

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

The team have advised that if all other sites are working fine during this time and it is just the one site that is affected, then there is not much else we can advise.

Thanks

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

I'm sorry to hear this. I will contact the team again now.

Thanks

[nophead]

No I haven't heard anything. I have started making a spreadsheet with times and speeds. It is very predictable that I will get a big speed drop some time between 19:30 and 20:30 on weekdays. I don't know if you can see my speed test history but they will all be below the guaranteed minimum of 41 Mbps  except the last one that I did late last night that was back to 48 Mbps. 

I would be very surprised if this doesn't affect other customers but they probably don't notice unless they run a speed test around 8pm. It only affects websites that aren't cached.

The web page says "Technical Error Could not load your previous speed tests", which is why I am recording them in a spreadsheet.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

Have you heard from our faults team since my last post?

Thanks

[nophead]

Today (Saturday afternoon) I noticed the speed dip and go back to normal in just a few minutes. I also saw MotoGP videos go from HD to potato vision and back to HD again.

I didn't have any of these problems with my previous ISP, which was Shell Energy, but I think they use TalkTalk infrastructure. Why would it be different? I imagine the internet was busier when the country was locked down during the pandemic but I didn't have any problems then.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

Thanks for confirming. I've passed this back over to our Faults Team now and will post back as soon as I receive an update.

Thanks

[nophead]

All my tests are wired and I have done some on a laptop with no other programs running. I do most on my desktop but it doesn't make any difference. Your network connection to the internet slows down most weekday evenings around 8pm and earlier on weekends.

This is masked by your caching, so most people won't notice but I do because I have two Dorna subscriptions to watch motorsport and when the speed test says it is slow they play in low res. Phone support have told me that Dorna videos are not cached. On the other hand Netflix, youtube, etc are cached and I can always watch those in HD. Netflix's speed test is always fast but your own speedtest, Which's and ookla show that is slows down to very low speeds. Given the times this happens it must be congestion in your connection to parts of the internet despite what your network people say. 

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

Can I just confirm, was this a wired speed test with no other applications running at the same time? Our Network Team have checked and confirmed that they can see no peak time congestion.

Thanks