TalkTalk are in breach of the terms and conditions regarding Eero devices

[bigjohn3]

Attached is the terms and conditions customers sign when agreeing to talktalks plans. This is set and has some very precise wording stating that, in part 7.2:

All such necessary equipment will be owned by us apart from the following equipment which
you will own:
(a) any router and/or set top box that we send you as part of a new service with us; and
(b) any equipment that you have paid for

If this is true talktalk then how can you legally brick users Eero devices at the end of contract and midcontract if they choose to leave. All these aftermarket Eero devices are being illegally bricked by TalkTalk when, in writing, they are owned by the user and it is wrong to 'brick' them and is a huge contributer to E-Waste. This is shameful behaviour in my opinion and is very much open to a class action lawsuit. I advise talktalk to seriously recontemplate this approach.

https://www.talktalk.co.uk/media/pdf/legal/TalkTalk_Customer_Terms_and_Conditions_v20190401.pdf

[Gondola]

Incorrect - Customer purchased devices can be used by the customer on any network. The devices are not locked to TalkTalk. The device was paid for in full by the customer so it's able to be used by the customer when they leave for another ISP.

Free issue devices paid for by TalkTalk are specifically for use on the TalkTalk network and only on eero packages. Compare this to the BT Hub router that is locked to the BT network and at the end of a BT contract the customer must return the device or pay a penalty but the device still remains the property of BT and locked to the BT network.

Ownership passing to the customer on full completion of the initial contract is an accounting thing for tax purposes. My take on this is that the asset cost is fully written off during the contract and with ownership passing to the customer the device cannot be included as a company asset. Furthermore if the device goes wrong after the 12 month warranty expires then the customer becomes liable for repair or replacement. TalkTalk will though take the device back for environmental responsible recycling and give the customer a replacement device on loan. That device remains TalkTalk property. Perhaps TalkTalk should take the same stance as BT and always retain ownership and demand the return of TalkTalk free issue eeros.

Just as BT have the right to retain hold of the Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) contained in the Hub software by locking the Hub to the BT network so do TalkTalk have the right to retain hold of the IPR contained in the eero software. Amazon may even have written that into the supply contracts with ISP's to restrict the use of devices supplied to ISP's. The customer doesn't own the right to use the software even if they do own the hardware. TalkTalk never give customers the software to routers.

Computer Misuse Act 1990 criminalises unauthorised access to and intentional damage to computer systems. Good luck trying to work that one!

Bottom line is if you want an eero mesh system of your own to use on any network then buy your own eero mesh system. You've bought the hardware and the right to use the eero software directly under the terms of the licence from Amazon.

[t88888]

@Gondola

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@Gondola wrote:

TalkTalk do not disable any eero devices purchased by customers. If you have purchased an eero device legally from TalkTalk or Amazon then you can use that device as you wish.

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Yes - my understanding is that as long as you remain on a talktalk contract, then you can use the eero device supplied for that plan with no issues.

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@Gondola wrote:

TalkTalk state clearly and openly that eero devices supplied by TalkTalk as free-issue are restricted to use with TalkTalk eero enabled packages only and if not so used may be disabled

You are correct, talktalk does say "The eero device is restricted use and can only be used on the TalkTalk broadband network and with TalkTalk eero enabled packages, otherwise they may be deactivated." on the "router entitlement" section of their online terms page.

The problem here is that the actual terms and conditions document states that the customer owns their device:

How can talktalk justify bricking devices that are stated by themselves to be owned by the customer, not owned by talktalk? Surely the legal ownership of the device takes precedent over the restriction clause? This is severely contradictory at best.

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@Gondola wrote:

TalkTalk will take back any eero routers for recycling so there is no environmental issue involved here. TalkTalk will also take back any eero routers that you own at the end of a contract when that contract is not renewed. 

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So you're saying that there isn't an environmental issue because the customer (in this hypothetical, they are now out of contract) has the option of giving something they own back to talktalk - but if they wish to keep the device they own, it will be bricked intentionally by their now-previous ISP, a company they no longer have a contract with.

Please note that I am not talking about customers selling the eero device on after their contract ends (that is another can of worms) - I am just talking about the original customer keeping it for personal use.

This is the point that the OP @bigjohn3  was making, and it's disappointing that there is still no response from any talktalk staff about this. I believe the reason that the OP used the word "legally" is because this action would appear to fall foul of section 3 of the computer misuse act. This is just my layman interpretation of course, but I do believe a proper investigation and response into this practice is required.

The perfect response would be "we have never actually done this and promise not to going forward - we will update our terms to reflect this" as I am unsure if this has actually happened to people yet, hopefully not.

[Gondola]

TalkTalk do not disable any eero devices purchased by customers. If you have purchased an eero device legally from TalkTalk or Amazon then you can use that device as you wish.

TalkTalk state clearly and openly that eero devices supplied by TalkTalk as free-issue are restricted to use with TalkTalk eero enabled packages only and if not so used may be disabled. TalkTalk will take back any eero routers for recycling so there is no environmental issue involved here. TalkTalk will also take back any eero routers that you own at the end of a contract when that contract is not renewed. 

TalkTalk supply free issue eero routers with a paid for eero Secure subscription (eero Plus as Amazon have renamed it) and are certainly not going to continue to let such routers remain active when not being used by a TalkTalk customer taking an eero enabled package.

[t88888]

I should note that the existing/up to date terms and conditions PDF on this page: https://new.talktalk.co.uk/legal/terms-of-use says the exact same thing as OPs PDF.

Bricking devices that have been purchased by customers is anti-consumer and anti-environmental.

I would like a response to this. @Michelle-TalkTalk @Ady-TalkTalk @Debbie-TalkTalk