Slow download speed from some services despite fast connection

[nophead]

Hello,

   I have a solid ADSL connection speed of 55.37 Mbps and I can play youtube videos,  watch HD TV catchup services and Netflix without any problems. However at some times of day near race weekends I can't watch MotoGP and WorldSBK at HD resolution.  Sometimes it is low res which looks like an impressionist oil painting! 

When I investigate actual download speeds I get widely varying results depending on the test provider.  Google home says I have a lightning fast connection and reports 50.2 Mbps. Fast.com powered by Netflix always reports a reasonable speed as well, currently 53 Mbps. It varies between about 40 and 55.

However when I have a problems with MotoGP Which's speed test can be as  lows as 2 Mbps to 5 Mbps and www.speedtest.net can show similar slow speeds as well, although on good days they show much higher speeds, closer to the actual line rate.

I have been in contact with Dorna and after a long email conversation they offered a refund but no fix. They say only a small number of their customers have this problem. I have looked at the bandwidth used by Dorna videos and it is about 6 Mbps, so about 4 times other HD video services but that should not be a problem for a 55M bps connection.  I can watch other HD services at the same time and it doesn't make the Dorna feed any worse. So I do have plenty of bandwidth, just not to Dorna.

So what is Which's speed test doing that sees such slow download speeds, that only affect Dorna's videos? It seems like some part of the internet has a slow connection to Talktalk but other parts are always fast.

A traceroute shows the Dorna videos come from an Amazon server in Seattle via 19 hops, lots taking around 100ms. 

[nophead]

I will see if I can remotely execute a test on one of my servers. I can test here over my VPN but my download will never go above my upload speed. So during the day I get about 5/5 and last night it was only 0.1.

The ArpPing test that failed seems to be a test that the router does to see if it is still connected. It probably times out because the connection is so slow and that caused it to redo the DHCP negotiation giving the brief disconnection.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

If you are able to run me some more speed tests using the TalkTalk speed tester when the speeds are good and also when the speeds drop when connected wired and also a wired ping and trace route at both times then I can ask our Network Team again to take another look. As advised they previously looked a few times but could find no congestion issues, however since this was a few months back I can ask again.

Thanks

[nophead]

It works fine during working hours so an engineer wouldn't see a problem unless they came late in the evening. And since there is nobody in the house it they can't come now anyway. The problem isn't in the house anyway. It is congestion further up stream.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

I'm sorry to hear that. I can see that this has been investigated previously and we couldn't find any issues. The only option we have is to arrange an engineer visit as previously advised. If you would like to go ahead with this then please let us know.

Thanks

[nophead]

So I am in Tenerife at the moment using my TT broadband via a VPN. I have noticed the speeds going terribly slow in the late evenings.  For example now, at 22:55 it is only 100Kbps. During the day my VPN speed is roughly equal to my upload speed, around 5 or 6 Mbps. A new phenomenon is it seems to disconnect and reconnect late evening as well. This is what the router log says.

2023-01-18 21:57:47 [Debug][Debug-Log] static:[ARPPING] ArpPing fail, reset wan Index=0x10201001.
2023-01-18 21:57:48 [Debug][Debug-Log] static:[WAN_MNGT] ipv4 if set wan state down, wan Index=0x10201001.
2023-01-18 21:57:48 [Critical][Debug-Log] static:[dhcpc]get wan[wan3] ifindex[41] and Mac Addr[*:*:*:*:*:*] success!
2023-01-18 21:57:48 [Debug][Debug-Log] static:[dhcpc]send Discover, wan[wan3], xid[dc3bdd11], mac*:*:*:*:*:*], requestip[*.*.*.*], option60[DG8041W-v1.05t]
2023-01-18 21:57:49 [Debug][Debug-Log] static:[dhcpc]receive Ack, wan[wan3], xid[dc3bdd11], mac[*:*:*:*:*:*], request serverip[2.98.32.1], yourip[*.*.*.*], dns1[79.79.79.79], dns2[79.79.79.80]
2023-01-18 21:57:49 [Debug][Debug-Log] static:[WAN_MNGT] ipv4 if set wan state up pre, wan Index=0x10201001.
2023-01-18 21:57:49 [Debug][Debug-Log] static:[WAN_MNGT] ipv4 if set wan state up, wan Index=0x10201001.
2023-01-18 21:57:49 [Critical][Debug-Log] static:MngtPlat_OnWanUp[index_0x10201001]

Judging by how fast this is I don't think the ASDL has reconnected. I think it is just the IP connection. The connection speeds don't change.

It wasn't too bad over Christmas but now everybody is back at work it is terrible in the evenings for much longer than my original complaint. Complete rubbish really now that it also reconnects.

[nophead]

According to the internet archive you still said this in January but removed it by May. https://web.archive.org/web/20220121195221/https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/Broadband-tr...

[nophead]

Although the title of this problem says "some services" I now know it is the connection to the whole internet that slows down in the evening except the video services that you cache. I see other people may have the same problem. I.e. they report the TT download speed test drops very low in the evenings. You say it is a different problem but they haven't posted enough information to know it is or isn't exactly the same.

Unless they also say they have run a Fast.com speed test and it is not much faster or that they can't still watch videos when the TT download speed is too low for that we don't know if it the same problem or something different.

I am sure it must affect at least all the TT customers connected to the Atherton exchange and most likely a lot more.

I read this some time ago and Google still attributes it to a TalkTalk page but I think it has been removed recently.

TV multicast traffic is managed over the network to optimise delivery of video on demand and TV channels over the TalkTalk broadband connection. What impact? We limit any impact on other types of traffic with a range of measures to ensure our customers can also enjoy their broadband service.

[nophead]

Yes I know nobody here can understand or fix the issue or provide advice, other than to switch to another ISP, which I intend to do when I am in the UK long enough to ensure I am not left without a connection. I am however advising you how to diagnose your server issues so you can provide a proper internet service. It seems like you are not interested in doing so.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi,

Unfortunately, there is nothing further we can do or advise on via the Community. I can also see that Karl has responded to this also.

Thanks

[nophead]

No because it isn't a problem with my router or the connection. It is a problem with your servers in Aylesbury.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hello,

At this stage the only options we have are to arrange an engineer visit or arrange to send a replacement router for testing purposes. Would you like us to arrange this for you?

Thanks

[nophead]

Over the last few days noticed some slowdowns around 6:30 in the mornings and looking back at my logs I found some earlier. I doubt the internet is busy then and we are asleep and wouldn't have noticed if I wasn't running a speed test every 5 minutes. Here is a summary, without the evening slowdowns.

Mon 24/10/22 06:21 download: 54.00 Mbps, upload: 6.64 Mbps, ping:   7.28 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Mon 24/10/22 06:26 download: 35.87 Mbps, upload: 6.35 Mbps, ping:   6.62 ms, server: Vodafone UK
Mon 24/10/22 06:32 download: 22.47 Mbps, upload: 6.46 Mbps, ping:   6.85 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Mon 24/10/22 06:38 download: 23.81 Mbps, upload: 6.49 Mbps, ping:   6.74 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Mon 24/10/22 06:43 download: 28.60 Mbps, upload: 6.62 Mbps, ping:   6.77 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 24/10/22 06:48 download: 52.43 Mbps, upload: 6.22 Mbps, ping:   6.52 ms, server: YouFibre

Tue 25/10/22 06:45 download: 53.96 Mbps, upload: 6.60 Mbps, ping:   6.49 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Tue 25/10/22 06:50 download: 19.91 Mbps, upload: 6.28 Mbps, ping:   7.12 ms, server: YouFibre
Tue 25/10/22 06:56 download: 24.33 Mbps, upload: 6.66 Mbps, ping:   6.85 ms, server: YouFibre
Tue 25/10/22 07:01 download: 44.53 Mbps, upload: 6.41 Mbps, ping:   6.70 ms, server: YouFibre

Thu 27/10/22 06:52 download: 54.15 Mbps, upload: 6.50 Mbps, ping:   6.67 ms, server: YouFibre
Thu 27/10/22 06:57 download: 34.59 Mbps, upload: 6.44 Mbps, ping:   6.57 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Thu 27/10/22 07:03 download: 34.86 Mbps, upload: 6.52 Mbps, ping:   8.79 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Thu 27/10/22 07:08 download: 53.20 Mbps, upload: 6.55 Mbps, ping:   6.65 ms, server: YouFibre

Sat 05/11/22 06:14 download: 51.65 Mbps, upload: 6.31 Mbps, ping:   6.67 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Sat 05/11/22 06:19 download: 26.69 Mbps, upload: 6.24 Mbps, ping:   6.70 ms, server: YouFibre
Sat 05/11/22 06:25 download: 15.47 Mbps, upload: 6.37 Mbps, ping:   7.07 ms, server: YouFibre
Sat 05/11/22 06:30 download: 22.12 Mbps, upload: 6.36 Mbps, ping:   6.72 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Sat 05/11/22 06:36 download: 33.13 Mbps, upload: 6.61 Mbps, ping:   6.78 ms, server: YouFibre
Sat 05/11/22 06:41 download: 20.01 Mbps, upload: 6.25 Mbps, ping:   6.81 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Sat 05/11/22 06:46 download: 53.94 Mbps, upload: 6.53 Mbps, ping:   6.61 ms, server: YouFibre

Mon 07/11/22 06:18 download: 54.02 Mbps, upload: 6.47 Mbps, ping:   6.57 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 07/11/22 06:23 download: 21.68 Mbps, upload: 6.34 Mbps, ping:   6.95 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 07/11/22 06:29 download: 18.24 Mbps, upload: 6.51 Mbps, ping:   7.01 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 07/11/22 06:34 download: 27.47 Mbps, upload: 6.48 Mbps, ping:   6.71 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Mon 07/11/22 06:40 download: 34.15 Mbps, upload: 6.48 Mbps, ping:   6.60 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Mon 07/11/22 06:45 download: 45.36 Mbps, upload: 6.56 Mbps, ping:   6.87 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 07/11/22 06:51 download: 35.08 Mbps, upload: 6.39 Mbps, ping:   6.65 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 07/11/22 06:56 download: 32.49 Mbps, upload: 6.40 Mbps, ping:   6.62 ms, server: YouFibre
Mon 07/11/22 07:01 download: 53.79 Mbps, upload: 6.64 Mbps, ping:   6.66 ms, server: YouFibre

Wed 09/11/22 06:24 download: 54.03 Mbps, upload: 6.29 Mbps, ping:   6.73 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Wed 09/11/22 06:30 download:  6.72 Mbps, upload: 6.48 Mbps, ping:   6.96 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Wed 09/11/22 06:35 download:  8.12 Mbps, upload: 6.44 Mbps, ping:   8.27 ms, server: YouFibre
Wed 09/11/22 06:41 download: 30.65 Mbps, upload: 5.67 Mbps, ping:   6.86 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Wed 09/11/22 06:47 download: 20.93 Mbps, upload: 6.30 Mbps, ping:   6.71 ms, server: YouFibre
Wed 09/11/22 06:52 download: 32.07 Mbps, upload: 6.39 Mbps, ping:   6.76 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Wed 09/11/22 06:57 download: 53.69 Mbps, upload: 6.32 Mbps, ping:   6.76 ms, server: YouFibre

It isn't as bad as the speed drops in the evenings and isn't a problem for me, but I wonder if this gives a clue to what causes the problem in the evenings. With it being fairly regular times I wonder if it is when they do server maintenance in Aylesbury.

[nophead]

No I have to use a VPN to the UK for TV, etc. I can however watch Dorna videos without the VPN and it works fine.

When I was there in June I couldn't understand why a speedtest from there through my VPN was only 2 Mbps when I have 48/48 in Tenerife and 56/7.5 at home. I used to get about 6 Mbps through my VPN with my previous ISP, which was Shell Energy using TalkTalk infrastructure capped at 40 Mbps. I don't understand why switching to an uncapped service direct with TalkTalk made it get worse. Perhaps it was just a coincidence and your problem only started after we switched in May or maybe Shell traffic is routed differently.

[Karl-TalkTalk]

Hi

Won't you be using the overseas provider when in Tenerife ?

Karl.

[nophead]

Yes but that means we have to suffer this problem until March. We still use our broadband when in Tenerife.

[Karl-TalkTalk]

Hi

A switch can vary with supplier, but you can still switch when you are back in the UK.

Karl.

[nophead]

Yes, thanks but last time we switched it took about two weeks and we won't be in the UK in two weeks time.

[Karl-TalkTalk]

Hi

The complaints Team have confirmed there will be no early termination charge if you leave, and notes to this effect have been put on your account.

Thanks  

Karl. 

[nophead]

Well I just got a useless call from Carole. She said there is nothing that can be done to fix the problem. I.e. talktalk can't provide a decent download speed in the evenings because "lots of people are at home" then.

Then I got a text saying:

TalkTalk Update: Sorry for the problem you've had with our service. We've been monitoring your service and can now see it that it's working. If you're eligible for a credit for this problem, this will be added to your account. If the problem isn't resolved, please let us know on 0345 172 0088 within the next 28 days or we'll close your complaint. You can find a copy of our Complaints Code at talktalk.co.uk/complaints. TalkTalk is a member of the alternative dispute resolution scheme CISAS, https://www.cedr.com/consumer/cisas/

I don't see how they can monitor my download speed remotely. If you can see my TalkTalk speed tests then there is the evidence it isn't fixed as the majority show very low speeds at peak times and good speeds the rest of the time.

No way am I going to phone to say it isn't resolved because I have heard here how useless your phone and chat services are and after four phone calls from you only one person had any technical knowledge and could grasp the problem. He was the person who told me you cache video services but not Dorna's, which explained why I can still watch video when the download tests show there isn't enough bandwidth.

This was Friday evening:

Fri 04/11/22 18:17 download: 50.50 Mbps, upload: 6.24 Mbps, ping:   6.73 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 18:23 download: 40.52 Mbps, upload: 6.49 Mbps, ping:   6.83 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 18:28 download: 39.16 Mbps, upload: 6.26 Mbps, ping:   6.48 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 18:34 download: 42.82 Mbps, upload: 6.40 Mbps, ping:   6.68 ms, server: YouFibre

Fri 04/11/22 19:17 download: 53.66 Mbps, upload: 6.40 Mbps, ping:   6.55 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 19:22 download:  0.70 Mbps, upload: 6.41 Mbps, ping:   9.47 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 19:28 download:  3.74 Mbps, upload: 6.32 Mbps, ping:   9.24 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 19:33 download:  3.00 Mbps, upload: 6.25 Mbps, ping:   7.12 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 19:39 download:  2.89 Mbps, upload: 5.88 Mbps, ping:  71.51 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 19:44 download:  6.45 Mbps, upload: 6.37 Mbps, ping:   7.46 ms, server: Vodafone UK
Fri 04/11/22 19:50 download:  8.58 Mbps, upload: 5.85 Mbps, ping:   6.61 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 19:55 download:  5.80 Mbps, upload: 6.03 Mbps, ping:   8.87 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 20:01 download:  3.71 Mbps, upload: 6.09 Mbps, ping:   7.35 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 20:07 download:  3.37 Mbps, upload: 6.32 Mbps, ping:   8.16 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 20:12 download: 10.18 Mbps, upload: 5.79 Mbps, ping:   6.79 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 20:17 download: 13.69 Mbps, upload: 5.74 Mbps, ping:   6.63 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 20:23 download: 32.56 Mbps, upload: 5.86 Mbps, ping:   7.01 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 20:28 download: 11.51 Mbps, upload: 0.00 Mbps, ping:  11.74 ms, server: Vodafone UK
Fri 04/11/22 20:34 download: 46.79 Mbps, upload: 6.25 Mbps, ping:   6.77 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 20:40 download: 13.18 Mbps, upload: 6.19 Mbps, ping:   6.95 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 20:45 download:  0.00 Mbps, upload: 0.00 Mbps, ping:   6.81 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 20:50 download: 15.19 Mbps, upload: 6.37 Mbps, ping:   6.57 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 20:56 download: 49.75 Mbps, upload: 6.40 Mbps, ping:   6.61 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:01 download:  0.00 Mbps, upload: 0.00 Mbps, ping:   6.72 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:07 download:  0.00 Mbps, upload: 0.00 Mbps, ping:  79.20 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:12 download: 21.54 Mbps, upload: 6.00 Mbps, ping:   6.70 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:17 download: 46.88 Mbps, upload: 6.34 Mbps, ping:   6.80 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 21:23 download: 19.88 Mbps, upload: 4.63 Mbps, ping:   6.73 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:29 download:  9.44 Mbps, upload: 4.39 Mbps, ping: 157.33 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:34 download:  3.89 Mbps, upload: 5.96 Mbps, ping:   8.95 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:40 download:  2.81 Mbps, upload: 5.41 Mbps, ping:  70.75 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04/11/22 21:45 download:  8.02 Mbps, upload: 6.11 Mbps, ping:   9.57 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 21:51 download:  0.44 Mbps, upload: 5.86 Mbps, ping:  17.22 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 21:56 download: 13.94 Mbps, upload: 6.31 Mbps, ping:   9.27 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 22:02 download:  0.73 Mbps, upload: 6.36 Mbps, ping:   9.15 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04/11/22 22:07 download:  9.86 Mbps, upload: 6.45 Mbps, ping:  10.83 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04/11/22 22:13 download: 50.54 Mbps, upload: 2.96 Mbps, ping:   7.04 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited

Looks like I will have to switch when I am home long enough.

[nophead]

One thing that strikes me as very odd is the abrupt starts to the slow periods. It can be 53Mbps and then just 5 minutes later sub 1 Mbps, usually around 19:30. This is tonight's episode, although not finished yet, being Friday night.

Fri 04 Nov 19:17 download: 53.66 Mbps, upload: 6.40 Mbps, ping:   6.55 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04 Nov 19:22 download:  0.70 Mbps, upload: 6.41 Mbps, ping:   9.47 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04 Nov 19:27 download:  3.74 Mbps, upload: 6.32 Mbps, ping:   9.24 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04 Nov 19:32 download:  3.00 Mbps, upload: 6.25 Mbps, ping:   7.12 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04 Nov 19:37 download:  2.89 Mbps, upload: 5.88 Mbps, ping:  71.51 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04 Nov 19:42 download:  6.45 Mbps, upload: 6.37 Mbps, ping:   7.46 ms, server: Vodafone UK
Fri 04 Nov 19:47 download:  8.58 Mbps, upload: 5.85 Mbps, ping:   6.61 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04 Nov 19:52 download:  5.80 Mbps, upload: 6.03 Mbps, ping:   8.87 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04 Nov 19:57 download:  3.71 Mbps, upload: 6.09 Mbps, ping:   7.35 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04 Nov 20:02 download:  3.37 Mbps, upload: 6.32 Mbps, ping:   8.16 ms, server: YouFibre
Fri 04 Nov 20:07 download: 10.18 Mbps, upload: 5.79 Mbps, ping:   6.79 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04 Nov 20:12 download: 13.69 Mbps, upload: 5.74 Mbps, ping:   6.63 ms, server: TNP Ltd.
Fri 04 Nov 20:17 download: 32.56 Mbps, upload: 5.86 Mbps, ping:   7.01 ms, server: Hyperoptic Limited
Fri 04 Nov 20:22 download: 11.51 Mbps, upload: 0.00 Mbps, ping:  11.74 ms, server: Vodafone UK
Fri 04 Nov 20:27 download: 46.79 Mbps, upload: 6.25 Mbps, ping:   6.77 ms, server: YouFibre

If it was normal contention due to the internet getting busier I would expect a gradual speed reduction but it falls off a cliff and tends to recover more slowly.  Perhaps a server runs out of memory and starts swapping, or something analogous to that. E.g. a PC will dramatically slow down once it exhausts its physical memory its speed drops of a cliff.

It is getting worse though because Fast.net and Google show reductions to 28 and 18.4 whereas they used to stay more like the line rate. I can still watch HD TV but now I get occasional buffering. I can see that my TV gets more bandwidth than the ookla speed test says is available but it doesn't get quite enough for HD with no buffering.