missing emails

[PeterRolison]

I had a sub-folder in my inbox in which I keep (in separate folders) all the emails I want to keep, but not visible in the main inbox.  There was a down-arrow next to my email address which I used to access this sub-folder.  Now my main email address is not displayed and so I have no way of accessing all my emails in these folders.  As these emails are important, can someone tell me how I can access them?

Peter

[Gondola]

Good to know you always show both Folder icons with folder names for the browser display that will show sub-folders when expanded using the inward facing chevron icon.

TalkTalk say that the Open Xchange staff had inspected your mailbox and did see the sub-folders you'd named as those previously containing the emails. If you see that the expected mail messages are not in those folders or in any other online folder then there's nothing else to be done is the inevitable, albeit unwanted, conclusion. 

I don't work for TalkTalk and as I've already said to you, there is no backup service offered by TalkTalk. Furthermore that Terms and Conditions are clear and Section 8 and 13 of Terms & Conditions are the defining clauses that require the customer to back up data (8.4) to avoid loss and exclude loss of data (13.2.a) from TalkTalk liability.  As an independent third party I cannot see any case for compensation by TalkTalk because of Clause 13.2.a.

[PeterRolison]

Gondola,

Gondola,

I always have my email to show both folders and icons; so there is nothing else to see. 

I have left replying for three weeks hoping for progress in finding all my emails which were lost during the migration over which I had no choice or control, and no prior warnings or caveats were issued..  The team can't just say they can’t find them, and wash their hands of the problem! 

These emails are important, and I maintain they must be somewhere.  They can't just disappear during an IT procedure, or the migration process must have been at fault. 

What are the team going to do about it?  If they find there is no perceived solution, I would think some form of compensation would be in order.

Peter

Peter

[Gondola]

There is no evidence for either of your assertions. The recommendation to all TalkTalk Mail users is to backup important emails and I have simply pointed out Terms & Conditions that specifically cover this point because it's important.

I'll mention something that cropped up recently with a couple of members not seeing sub-folders when the TalkTalk Mail folder view is set to show icons instead of icon and folder name. So as this is a simple thing to check:

If you see just icons in the left pane then look for the 'book' icon bottom left that toggles the Folder view between icons only and icon and folder name. Open folder view will then show folders that have sub-folders indicated by the right facing chevron that when selected will expand down to show sub-folders.

Of course you may see the sub-folders as the Open Xchange team confirmed that the folder names were in your mailbox.

I thought I'd mention this because other members thought they may have deleted sub-folders and user created sub folders under the Archive and My folders virtual folder names.

[PeterRolison]

Gondola,

I resent the fact that blame for my missing emails seems to be directed at me for not backing up my emails.

The real blame lies with the migration process for losing them in the first place.  It seems that it was not conducted in a professional manner to ensure all users’ data was safeguarded.

Peter

[Gondola]

TalkTalk's stance is that it is the user's responsibility to make backup copies. This has always been the case for emails as TalkTalk does not offer any backup service for TalkTalk Mail.

Section 8 and 13 of Terms & Conditions are the defining clauses that require the customer to back up data (8.4) to avoid loss and exclude loss of data (13.2.a) from TalkTalk liability.

I do believe TalkTalk and its vendor Open Xchange will have taken reasonable skill and care. I see no evidence of data loss in relation to the migration of my 3 mailboxes.  I wish I had some better advice to offer and it's entirely up to you if you wish to take this further.

[PeterRolison]

Gondona,

It is my belief that my emails still exist somewhere. If they haven’t been deleted, it stands to reason they are somewhere in the system.

Up to 100 of my emails, in a dozen folders, were lost during the rollout to the new system.  They were very important to me;

particularly correspondence with a solicitor, so I do need them back.

I had no choice about the migration, nor any control over it!

During the rollout there seemed to be no safeguards in place to protect users’ data.

There was no way of rolling back the migration to pick up emails which were not migrated.

There was no fail-safe procedure.

All of these missing events seem to indicate that the rollout was conducted in a less than professional manner!

Can you ask the team to have another definitive search?

If there is no way of retrieving my lost emails, would a formal complaint be the only way to obtain some redress?  Could you help me with the format and content of such a complaint?

What  level of compensation do you think would be appropriate?

Peter

[Ady-TalkTalk]

Hi Peter, I provided the team at OX with all the necessary information needed to find your mail folders if they still existed and they found nothing. I'm sorry, but its gone. You're the only customer I've had report this issue relating to the migration. If it were a wider issue we could press OX, but if they had your mail folders they'd have restored them for us. 

Ady

[Gondola]

I'm totally independent of TalkTalk and do not represent TalkTalk. All stances and opinions are mine.

I can only give my experience of multiple folders and emails in 3 mailboxes successfully migrated. You will need to take the issue up with TalkTalk as a formal complaint.

The complaints process is given in a link below at the foot of this page.

TalkTalk Community Support may comment on what a further search could possibly reveal as I've re-escalated this topic into their workflow.

[PeterRolison]

Gondola,

If you say my, up to 100 emails, cannot be found, can they look again? 

They must be there somewhere!

As these emails were lost during the company’s migration to the new email system, over which I had absolutely no control,  it is a company error; so what compensation is being offered for this failure?

Peter

[Gondola]

Ady-TalkTalk replied to you on 25 January 2024. I understand that the mail folders you were asking about were in the mailbox. As for the contents of those folders I understand that the TalkTalk Mail team were unable to find or restore the contents that you were expecting to be there. This is my understanding from previous replies.

Does this clarify the situation? Is there anything else you wish to be actioned?

[PeterRolison]

Gondola,

It's been almost five weeks since my last post; it would be nice to get a reply, or preferably, the return of my missing emails!

Peter

[PeterRolison]

I always back-up my data to a removeable hard drive and some to my OneDrive every month.

I don’t use a third-party email system like Outlook, but the server-based Talktalk Mail where data should be secure.

The rollout process has resulted in my losing up to 100 important emails.  I really must get them back!

What mechanisms were put in place to safeguard users’ data during the rollout?

Peter

[Ady-TalkTalk]

Hi Peter, I'm afraid I've provided the answer provided via the support teams at OX. The reason I have had a sticky post in the email board for so long is that we've never offered email backup and these things do occasionally happen. I know that very few people will take note of that prior to issues occurring, but it really is the only way to ensure that important mail can be retained. 

Ady

[PeterRolison]

Thanks, Gondola.  I do hope they can sort it.

Peter

[Gondola]

Yes referred back to TalkTalk Community Support for their involvement in your case.

[PeterRolison]

I concede that the occasional email may go missing, but Talktalk have lost up to one hundred of mine in about a dozen folders migrating to the new email system.  Some of these are very important and irreplaceable.  None were in Archive folders.

I would have thought that Talktalk have a duty to safeguard customers’ data to ensure nothing is lost during internal procedures.  The Team just can’t wash their hands of the problem! 

When I worked in IT, all users’ data was backed-up to DLTs on a nightly basis; some of which were kept for up to a year.  Surely Talktalk have a comparable system. 

Can you again refer this to the Team and get it sorted.  I really need these emails!

Peter

[Gondola]

I had mail messages in sub-folders and also in year by year archive folders and all of these were migrated to the new platform. I can only comment directly on my experience. I did help a couple of users to locate 'missing Archive sub-folders' because the migration placed those under the virtual My Folders entry and those sub-folders don't get automatically moved to the standard Archive 'folder' until the user first makes use of the Archive function on the new platform. 

If there had been any error affecting multiple mailboxes then in my experience the regular contributors to this forum would have noted it don't you think?

[PeterRolison]

Gondola, thank you for your swift reply, although I don’t feel as if my questions have been answered.

If you say that there is nothing to indicate there was a design flaw in the migration process were emails in folders not even thought about?  If so, then that is human error, not a system fault. How many others have had similar problems or is mine unique?

I concede that the occasional email may go missing, but you have lost up to one hundred of mine in about a dozen folders!

If you say others have not lost their sub-folders why are mine the exception.

Surely there is a way of interrogating the legacy email system to retrieve “lost” emails, which were not migrated.

I would have thought that you have a duty to safeguard customers’ data to ensure nothing is lost during internal procedures.

I was the recipient of the “evidence” from the solicitor; which I placed in one of my folders (which has gone missing!).  Some of the others are equally not able to be re-issued.

Peter

[Gondola]

Just to clarify the two points.

• If there was a process design flaw then with 2 million mailboxes or so to migrate I would have expected to see a significant number of other users reporting the total loss of sub-folders. I'm not seeing that. TalkTalk checked mailboxes for you but that check didn't find what you wanted.
• Seek guidance from your legal advisor. If there is a criminal case to answer then the investigating authorities can seek evidence from the other party.

I can advise you that the other party will not have been able to recall the sent mail message from your mailbox.

[PeterRolison]

If you say that there is nothing to indicate there was a design flaw in the migration process were emails in folders not even thought about?  If so, then that is human error, not a system fault. How many others have had similar problems?

Surely there is a way of examining the legacy email system to retrieve “lost” emails, which were not migrated.

I would have thought that you have a duty to safeguard customers’ data to ensure nothing is lost during internal procedures.

I was the recipient of the “evidence”; which I placed in one of my folders (which has gone missing!)

Peter