3rd party router - need vlan intervention

[Kob006]

Hi

I had my upgrade to a full fibre connection activated today but my eero router was never sent by TT. However, I wasn't planning on using it long as I have my own TP link Omada gateway router I wish to use. I have connected it up to the openreach box but it is not getting an Internet connection. 

Reading other posts 

(https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Full-Fibre/3rd-Party-Router/td-p/2979556) they recommend I set the VLAN ID to 0 (zero), but my router allows a range from 1 to 4094. The solution in the post I have linked to was that TT can intervene and provide a different VLAN ID individually. 

Please can I have this assistance as I have been told it will take 3 days to get the eero router, and we are now without Internet.

Thank you! 

[Billx]

Hi, @Kob006 

I am replying to your ‎10-05-2024 05:23 PM message.

Have you managed to get a positive outcome?

I assume TalkTalk comes first into your Sagemcom, and then via ethernet cable arrives to an ethernet port on your new 3rd party router.

What happens then? Is your new router on the same subnet as your Sagemcom, or on a separate subnet? If on separate subnets, how are you able to tie the 2 subnets together?

Thanks,

Bill

[Billx]

OK

[KeithFrench]

Yes please @Billx please create a new thread & @mention me in on it. Otherwise, it is not fair on the OP to hijack this thread.

[Billx]

Thanks very much, @KeithFrench 

I am currently looking only at the option of using the same subnet.  I have also read a bit more about this at another website.

I would intend to disable the wireless portion of  the Sagemcom. Going via this route, would the remaining ethernet ports on the Sagemcom AND the new 3rd party router be available as normal?

If you don't want me to respond on this thread, would you be willing that I open a new thread, and continue a bit with this discussion on the new thread?

Bill

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Billx 

I don't want to dwell on this, as it is not your thread. However, a daisy chain network - that is not a term used in 802.11, one router is an extender from the other. As to your other question, this all depends on how you connect your 3rd party router & the way that you configure it. To use the same subnet as the Sagemcom, you would need to put the other router into bridge mode (it is then just an AP, no routing at all), give it an IP address on the 192.168.1.0 network and connect the Sagemcom to one of its LAN networks. You will also need to disable one of the DHCP servers. Clients connected to either router have full connectivity between them

Connecting the Sagemcom to the WAN port of the other router means that you should not enable bridge mode at all but that the 3rd party one must be on a different network (e.g. 192.168.2.0). This time clients connected to the 3rd party router can connect to the ones on the Sagemcom, but you may need port forwarding to configured for the Sagemcom clients to access servers on the 3rd party one.

[KeithFrench]

The Eero in bridge mode is the complete opposite of modem mode. If you enable that, then you will have no internet access. This is because bridge mode disabled all routing and you will never be able to route between your private IP network & the public one.

[Kob006]

Thanks Keith, I will look into setting up the VLANs again when I have a bit more time. I am all set up and working with double NAT again using the Sagemcom. The Eero arrived and I set it up in bridge mode but there isn't a way to turn off WiFi, so I went back to the Sagemcom. The eero in bridge mode would have avoided the double NAT so it's a shame wifi can't be turned off. Maybe they will provide an update in the future to enable that feature. 

For anyone new who is looking for fftp and want to use their own router and APs, Talktalk with the eero probably isnt the right choice. I was just lucky I already had a talktalk sagemcom router that I could use as an alternative. 

Thanks again to you and Chris for your support on this. 

[Billx]

Hello @KeithFrench 

I was thinking of a scheme very similar to what you are here discussing.

A connection from the ONT to Sagemcom WAN port, a connection from an Ethernet port of the Sagemcom to the Ethernet WAN port of a 3rd party wireless router, and connection of all my devices to the ethernet ports and wireless bands of the 3rd party router, but retaining the phone system on the Sagemcom. Isn't this called a daisy system?

But what would be the relationship between the network remaining on the Sagemcom and the new network on the new 3rd party router? It looks like that the 3rd party router network is a subnet of the Sagemcon network, in other words they are not independent networks?

My current network/subnet is:

IP address:       192.168.1.1

Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0

What would the the new subnet look like? And how would the original subnet change?

Thanks

Bill

[KeithFrench]

If the VLANs are wholly within the local network of your TP-Link, then I don't see any problem. If they are to access the internet, then you may need to setup the appropriate IP routing.

[Kob006]

OK fantastic, thanks very much! I will get it all connected again later and let you know how I get on tomorrow. It seems like that I can't do what I really wanted to do with TT, but I can live with this workaround for now thanks. I wanted to set up local VLANs for poe cameras and IOT devices to help add additional protection to my network, which I couldn't do when I tried before with my double NAT setup.

[KeithFrench]

Yes, that is exactly how to connect them.

I totally agree with @Chris-TalkTalk that the Sagemcom will work at the same speed as the Eero. The Eero has a complication though, in that its default IP addressing scheme is supernetted, rather than subnetted, as most routers use, including the Sagemcom. 

The only slight problem is that this is a double NAT scenario, but that is only an issue if you want to do port forwarding. However, I often do this and the Sagemcom works very well like this, as I am sure that your other router will. I can offer lots of help if you want to do this.

[Kob006]

Oh! Well that's a nice surprise. Will it work if I connect the ONT to the WAN port of the Sagemcom and then ethernet of the Sagemcom to the WAN port of my network router? 

[Chris-TalkTalk]

You should get the same speeds with the Sagemcom

[Kob006]

Thanks Keith. That is how I had it set up before I had the ONT installed.  I will have to see if I can do something similar with the eero, so I can benefit from the 900mbs contract I am paying for.  

[KeithFrench]

What you could do, is to connect the Sagemcom permanently to the ONT & disable its WiFi. So long as both the Sagemcom & your router are on different private IP address subnets, then just connect from an Ethernet port of the Sagemcom to the Ethernet WAN port on your router. That will work.

[Kob006]

Hi Keith

So far updating the VLAN to 101 hasn't worked, but tonight I will reboot everything and try again.  To confirm, would the IPv4 connection be Dynamic IP or chnage to PPPoE now connecting directly to ONT?

[Chris-TalkTalk]

OK thanks, glad to hear it's working with the Sagemcom

Chris

[Kob006]

Hi Chris

Connecting my old router to the new ONT  socket has worked, and I have a connection again thank you. I'm still in the process of rebooting the router to try Keith's suggestion of VLAN 101. 

[Kob006]

My old socket 

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Did it lose connection while connected to the ONT, or your old telephone socket?

Chris