New Router Questions: Changing Wi-Fi Channels and Setting a New Router Log-in Password.

[mniven]

I've just changed over to a new TalkTalk Wi-Fi Hub router (Sagemcom) and encountered a couple of anomalies while setting it up.  First, despite setting the 2.4 and 5GHz Wi-Fi channels manually, they change every day without my intervention.  A search of this forum suggests that 'Wi-Fi optimisation' is to blame and I cannot access this setting.  So, could I request that an OCE changes this to 'off' for me?

Second, although the default router log-in password (not the Wi-Fi password) consists of just numbers and capital letters, the router will not allow a change to the password without the new one having at least one small letter as well.  Strange, but can anyone confirm this is true?

Many thanks for any feedback.

[Gliwmaeden2]

Thanks for that, @KeithFrench.

So the default password automatically defaults, @mniven, after a factory reset, as I suggested. 

You'd need to log in with that after a factory reset, and then change the password again to follow the guidance to use a wider range of characters and symbols. 

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Gliwmaeden2 

There was a firmware update on the 5364 & 5464 that enforced a password policy stricter than the default passwords. It enforced a mixture of upper & lower case letters and numbers. However, do a factory reset and the passwords defaulted to the originals that were now in breach of this new policy

[KeithFrench]

Hi @mniven 

Sorry if you took my comments that way, it was not intended as such. I was merely trying to point out that I provide this service free of charge, and it was up to you if you wanted to go ahead with it. You can always change your mind at any time.

[Gliwmaeden2]

That's useful to know re the router default password, @mniven, but I wonder if it was just treating it as a fresh password ?

It might work differently after a factory reset - that's when it would truly default to what's on the back of the router, and you'd need to use that again for access before changing it again....

What do you think, @KeithFrench ?

[kanya-TT]

Thank you, Mike. 

We take it, the issue is now solved for now. As for NOW TV, yes unfortunately you still need to contact them. 

And we'd like to commend you on your work with the NHS, keep up the good work.

Kanya

[mniven]

Hi all,

I just did a quick check on the 'changing login password' thread.  I successfully changed to one containing capital letters, small letters and numbers.  I confirm I can log into the router with this new password.  However, when I tried to revert to the original password as printed on the back of the router, the software would not accept it until I changed at least a single letter to be lower case.  I think this proves that my router really does want to enforce the use of at least 3 different symbols (upper case, lower case and numeric).  PS: I am quite content to stick with the new password which is memorable to me, but it's worth knowing that you can't simply revert to the original one if it only uses 2 different symbols (maybe a full reset would do it?).

On the subject of wifi channels, today these have stayed set at Ch6 and Ch60 for the 2.4 and 5GHz bands.  So maybe the system is settling.  Keith, I get the impression that you think I am being a bit stubborn in not immediately accepting your offer of support.  Be assured that it's not that at all, rather that I don't want to waste your valuable time with a half baked response to your questions.  It's just that, without going into detail, I am currently kept busy trying to manage the intricacies of the NHS on both my and my wife's behalf.  A working, reliable email and internet capability is all I need and the rest is rather academic at present.  Basically when the NHS calls, you have to drop other things and respond asap.  So, I think your offers of support are incredibly generous and long may you continue.  It is purely that I am a bit up against the wall at present and even the purist in me has to admit to compromises.  If I can just get NOW (TV) to believe I have a contract with them ......

Cheers.

Mike

[kanya-TT]

Hey there, @mniven. Please confirm when you have tried the steps suggested by @KeithFrench. Kanya

[KeithFrench]

Hi @mniven 

Re: Wi-Fi optimisation. I have offered to help you with this (see my post #4). A lot of channel changing is often the result of other environmental considerations that then make WiFi optimisation change channels. Rule those out & it often removes the need for WiFi Optimisation to do this.

My help is free of charge, but you do not have to accept it if you don't want to.

[mniven]

It never rains but it pours!  I have just spotted that TalkTalk (Toucansurf) webmail has started putting the email notifications of your replies into its spam folder.  I normally use MS Outlook as an email client and rarely go directly into webmail, so I don't immediately spot that this is happening or that Outlook is missing replies.  The spam filters in TT webmail used to leave my incoming messages alone so that only Outlook would decide to put stuff into its spam folder.  You would think that TT webmail would recognise an incoming email from the TT Community as being valid.  A case of 'biting the hand....'?  Oh, and I have just moved my NOW (TV) Entertainment billing from TT over to NOW directly as TT can no longer support this function.  Everything went well and I even have an email from NOW telling me my membership is set up and I can start streaming.  However, when I try to watch anything I get a message that I don't have any active memberships!  So, lets see if NOW Customer Support can fix this one.

Anyway, enough of that.  Thank you @Gliwmaeden2 for your clarification that it's only user originated login password changes that need to contain (say) upper and lower case letters plus numbers, but that the original password does not need to comply with these rules.  I can imaging a few people getting confused if they follow the default password structure when changing to a new user-defined one.

Re the wi-fi optimisation question, yes Keith I had assumed that the optimisation took place externally to the router and gather from you it now cannot be turned off.  I guess that I'll just have to live with it but do sometimes feel that leaving well alone is the best option.  I will check when I have time if I have any bits of kit that only support the bottom 5GHz wifi channels.  They will just have to default to 2.4GHz if the router decides to use the higher 5GHz channels on a given day.

Again, thanks for your feedback.

Mike

[KeithFrench]

I agree it isn't difficult at all to return to defaults.

[Gliwmaeden2]

@KeithFrench, I am not suggesting otherwise but the OP's router just shows numbers and capital letters, as they originally stated.

It shouldn't have any trouble defaulting to that surely?

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Gliwmaeden2 

That is no longer the case with default passwords on the Hub 3, as they use all sorts of characters in them. You just have to follow what is on the label on the rear of the router 

[Gliwmaeden2]

@mniven whatever the default passwords are always revert without the upper / lower case number / special character being an issue when resetting. 

It's ONLY the ones you make up that require greater variety. 

[KeithFrench]

Hi Mike,

Of course, you can take me up on my offer whenever you want. WiFi Optimisation is not part of the router, but a cloud-based system that accesses the router via TalkTalk's normal remote management system & tries to optimise your WiFi to be at the best it can be. Sure, in the early days, it got it wrong a bit, but these days it is much better. Also, in the early day,s it could be disabled, but now it can't.

[mniven]

Thanks to all of you for your comments and sorry for the slow response - there are so many other things going on at present that demand my immediate attention that router experimentation has taken a bit of a back seat. Let me also state that I am not having any real problems with the new router - my questions are really to satisfy my curiosity when I encounter something that seems to be a bit surprising. On this basis, here are my further comments.

Previous routers have allowed manual selection of Wi-Fi working channels as an alternative to 'auto' where the router picks them. If you chose to set them yourself, there they stayed until you changed them or set the router back to 'auto'. It seems counter intuitive to provide the option for manual channel frequency selection but then go back to effectively an auto mode the next day. If I choose to select a particular channel, it's because I have done a survey of how congested the channels are (number of co-channel signals and their strength) and have selected what seems to be the quietest one. This is probably going to be a compromise as different areas of the house will exhibit different congestion profiles. I don't see how Wi-Fi Optimisation by the router can know what most of these factors are and select a channel accordingly. To me automatic optimisation is not that clever, particularly when I see the router has selected Channel 1 on 2.4GHz, which is generally the most congested of all at my location. At 5GHz, I can see the router sometimes picking channels above 48 - which are certainly quieter but not always supported by older Wi-Fi enabled devices (I'm old and so is some of my electronic stuff).

Concerning router login (admin) passwords, picking a new one seems to mandate using at least 3 different type of symbol (from capital letters, lower case letters, numbers and special symbols). Fair enough except that the original default password only employs 2 symbol types (in my case capital letters and numbers). This suggests that you will be unable to revert to the original password once you have changed it to something else. Again, this is no big deal - I just found this an interesting quirk of the router firmware.

Keith, that's a very kind offer. Can I possibly take you up on it at a later date? I hope my longer, boring reply has indicated that my questions were not asked as a result of major router problems, rather just being my normal nosy self.

Cheers.
Mike

[KeithFrench]

Hi @mniven 

Although, as said by @Gliwmaeden2, Wi-Fi optimisation can no longer be disabled, in many cases that I have investigated, the cause has been something else.

Slow speed, intermittent dropouts, breaks in the signal or no signal on some or all devices or no internet access might be caused by Wi-Fi interference from other local networks, which can also lead to a permanent reduction in speed. No ISP can be responsible for your local environment; this is mainly a byproduct of the popularity of Wi-Fi.

Generally speaking, the 2.4GHz band suffers a lot more from interference than the much faster 5GHz band, but the 2.4GHz band can sometimes have a better range; however, this all depends on your local area.

In other words, I offer a free, impartial analysis of your Wi-Fi network and will try to help you optimise your Wi-Fi connection. The next stage involves sending out a guide to help you get me some important diagnostic results so that I can analyse them for you and recommend changes to your router configuration to solve them.

I only send this out to people who request it.

The information below is provided by TalkTalk. For confirmation, please contact @Lorrainef, the manager of the TalkTalk support staff on this forum.

KeithFrench is one of our valued Community Stars and can help with a range of issues related to wireless and networking. At times, he may ask you to send him test results via a Private Message to help analyse/diagnose an issue. Although Keith does not work for TalkTalk, he very kindly shares his time and knowledge to help others.

If you need further help or if we need to take any details such as personal information about your account, like phone numbers, account numbers, etc, one of the TalkTalk team will jump in and help out.

[kanya-TT]

Thanks @Gliwmaeden2 . We will wait for you response @mniven.

Kanya

[Gliwmaeden2]

Wifi optimisation can no longer be disabled, @mniven, and has been so for about a year, so I'm afraid that your search results cannot be recent enough. 

Have you tried simply setting up the router password following those instructions to see if it works?

It will either "take" or not.

Edit: the default settings for both WiFi and the router don't seem to use lower case, but I have certainly changed my own wifi password and used lower case, and it worked perfectly well .... it's simply more secure than the originals.