Faulty Router ?

[MerseyRayUK]

I have just swapped over to Full Fibre 500  (Took just over 3.5 months from initial install date) and was first told I would be getting the super duper eero router.   Now that my install date came I received a router in the post... not an eero

I got the TalkTalk Wi-Fi Hub 3 with Firmware Version: SGEK10004A00

After around 100 minutes, the internet stops working.

Looking in the router admin panel, the connection still says its connected, but it just isnt working on any device, wired or wireless.

So I have gone to the logs in the router to see if that helps and I see the following (See pics)

It looks like somebody has been having problems with this router in 2013. Im guessing its then been sent back to talktalk for a replacement and they have sent me this faulty router.

The only way to get the internet working on my devices again is to restart the router, it works for around 2-3 hours and then the same error happens.. All devices yet again dont work, and the router light is still lit and says connected in the router admin panel.

The majority of the errors are pointing to the DNS resolution failing.  I checked in the DNS settings and somebody had entered 192.168.1.1 as the DNS server, which is the router IP so wouldnt achieve anything..  I have removed that IP and the error is still there.  This leads me to believe that the last person was experiencing the same issue that I am now getting.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @MerseyRayUK @Mandisa-TT 

This is the report from my analysis of the Wireshark trace that the customer provided me with. Nothing can be done as yet, as I need to see the output from a trace route that I have requested the customer send me in a PM for privacy. Apologies if this is rather technical, but there is no way around that, other than saying there is most likely a problem beyond your fibre connection, further into the internet.

• The PC makes a DNS query to the router's DNS server for the domain name that you PM’d me, but it does not respond to you.

• Why is that? The DNS server in the router can only hold a small number of domain names to IP address pairs itself & all others it queries the next DNS server in the DNS Hierarchy with what is called a Recursive query. This will be the network DNS server configured in the router’s Internet Connectivity section. Typically, this is the TalkTalk DNS server 79.79.79.79. However, you may well have changed this to Google DNS or Cloudfare DNS, I can’t remember.

• To see this recursive DNS query, Wireshark would need to capture traffic between the router’s WAN port & the ONT, which you can’t do without specialist hardware.

• With no response to the DNS query for this domain, no TCP or HTTPS sessions can be established as the destination IP address is unknown.

• There is another session in the trace to an IP address out on the internet (starts with 95.101.x.x). Packets are only seen from the PC to this IP address; all responses are missing. Some packets are retransmitted as a result of this. This all falls apart when some ICMP packets are sent from a router on the internet, whose IP address is 92.26.112.232, reports “Destination Unreachable, Host unreachable”. This means that the destination IP address that starts with 95.101.x.x, cannot be reached for some reason.

• A tracert to the domain the customer is using as a test site will show exactly where this router is in the internet backbone and where the problem is located. Once known, this will probably need to be passed over to the TalkTalk Networks department. However, this cannot be done yet, as I need to see the tracert output first.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @MerseyRayUK 

I can't simulate the condition necessary for DV loss of registration; just disconnecting my phone doesn't change this. Please can you just confirm when you lose registration and the light is purple, I assume it is a steady light & not flashing? When it comes back & the light goes green, once again I assume that the light is steady green & not flashing?

I am still writing a report on my Wireshark analysis, which I will put in the thread shortly (I am preparing this as a generic description, not quoting any personal information).

[KeithFrench]

Hi @MerseyRayUK @Mandisa-TT 

Having had a quick look at the Wireshark trace that you sent me, I can see what the problem is. Details to follow, I need to see the results from the tracert, when it is not working, if you could PM them to me, that will be great.

[KeithFrench]

I will prove this on my Hub 3 in a few minutes and if the same, I will document it in my guide. 

This also makes me think that when you said before that the internet connection stays up, but data just seems to stop flowing, that might also affect the VoIP IP stream of the Digital Voice.

[MerseyRayUK]

Yes that is what Tech told me.  Its a new feature that indicates the line is not connected/registered.

[KeithFrench]

I wonder if the purple light indicates a loss of digital voice registration.

[MerseyRayUK]

Another update for TT Tech:

So I restarted the router to post the above info.

Around 40minutes later, the internet stopped again

This was around 9:18

I logged back into the router and internet said "Connected", and the Digital phone said "Online".

I tried calling the landline and it seemed to be going through as it was ringing on my mobile, but the landline didnt ring.

At this stage, the light on the front of router was still white.

[MerseyRayUK]

This update is mainly for the TalkTalk Tech guy that is ringing me around 12 midday

After speaking to you, we didnt use the internet much and the internet was working fine from when our call ended right through till 5.01am.  (I know this because that is when the Ring doorbell stopped working)

Walkind down the stairs I could immediately see the purple light on the front. (The phone is connected in the port but the router says "Offline"

The Internet in the router still says online

The DNS erros captured at that time are these

And I dont know if this is of any use 

Whilst I was capturing these screenshots for you, the light wsa purple, but then it briefly changed to green, then went to white.

But the internet was still not working and the phoneline still said "Offline"

@KeithFrench I have sent you the information requested.  Check your PM

[KeithFrench]

Well, obviously that is between you & TalkTalk, not me.

[MerseyRayUK]

Not a problem Keith, 

I'm not doubting you, it's them im doubting.

Originally I was being sent the eero pro, as can be seen here in the pic.

Because talktalk didn't tell openreach to do the installation, 3 months later Openreach cancelled the installation so TalkTalk had to do a new order and changed it to the Hub 3.  It seems that both of the routers I was told, I havent received lol.

I know this shouldnt have any impact on the service, but clearly it is, and I would like what I signed up for.

Thanks for your time

[KeithFrench]

Sorry @MerseyRayUK I do not have the time to go into this much (I don't get paid for any of this), I just do this in my free time.

I don't care what you are being told by the CS representative from TalkTalk, that is not the current version of the Hub 3. However, as I said, unless you paid for the WiFi Hub 3, then this will have no bearing on your fault. I will raise this with my contact at TalkTalk for you, though.

[MerseyRayUK]

Ahh well all 3 of the routers I have look like this.

I just phoned talktalk CS to tell them I have the wrong router being sent out and they said the hub 3 looks like the one in this picture and has the light on the front.  And she insisted that I had been sent the Hub 3

[KeithFrench]

Well, yes, but there have, for some reason, been so many versions of the Hub 3 that this might still not be correct. I have reported to TalkTalk that their documentation is not up to date. It definitely has a light underneath. This is what the front & back of the router should look like:-

Front view, note the light underneath.

Rear & side layout.

As I said in another post, the one that you have (I can only be sure when I see the Device Info after you are back home). Unless you have particularly purchased the Hub 3, I would not be concerned about it, as the router model number, it is not affecting your problem.

[MerseyRayUK]

Is this what my router is supposed to look like  ?  (google image)

None of mine look like that.

[KeithFrench]

There is no need to set static IP addresses on the devices themselves, as that will lead to even more problems. If you want them to retain the IP address, then use the DHCP reserved IP address feature in your router.

Where the DNS entries are concerned is different. Generally, what is happening is that the DNS server in your router (it often gets this information from DNS servers further up the DNS hierarchy) is reporting that a website URL cannot be resolved to an IP address. This is essential from the point of view that website URLs cannot be routed over the internet; only IP addresses can. However, this often does not mean that the problem is with your device, perhaps requesting the IP address of a misspelt URL. The requested webpage is likely to have loads of links in it, which, if not correctly maintained, could be out of date and request other websites that no longer exist.

The main thing about the DNS entries in the system log is that they are wrongly classified as"Error". System logs conform to a series of standard classifications, including error, warning, informational & debug to name a few. Some of the uses for these are:-

• Error - used when a router is malfunctioning in some way
• Warning - record when the internet goes down, or some other link (more common on commercial routers or switches).
• Informational - tells you when something has happened that might be of interest or not. This is often broken down further by the area of the router that has raised this event. Wi-Fi, for example, can be used to identify when a device connects or disconnects from the router. System - when a device logs into the router's UI. DNS should show errors with the DNS process.
• Debug - record issues with experimental features.

Each of these classifications is prioritised; error, for instance, being of higher priority than warning, because the router is misbehaving in some way. Warning is of a lower priority, because this might only affect some users, whereas a failing router affects every device.

The problem with all of these DNS entries is that they should be classified as Informational; however, being classed as Error, & therefore of higher priority, they swamp the log. I have been stressing to TalkTalk that this is a bug & I am waiting for it to be fixed.

I will send you a PM about the software shortly.

[MerseyRayUK]

The Hub 3 has a light underneath ?

Both of these routers which I have been sent have the light on the front, there are no lights underneath.

The old router also has the same light on the front but just not as bright.

[MerseyRayUK]

Hi @KeithFrench ,

Yes im happy to do some investigation work. Like I said, after 5pm.

The first thing I want to try which I haven't yet, is manually set the DNS on the macBook to use Google DNS servers, I know you said ignore them errors, but they do worry me because if DNS really is failing then that would stop internet traffic.

Another thing tech have suggested, which will be my 2nd thing to try is, connect my wired device(s) directly to the fibre box, bypassing the router.  He said the internet traffic should still go fine through that. So I do have an unmanaged switch connected on the network, so I will put a patch lead from the fibre box to my switch to feed my wired devices, then a patch cable to the router to feed the wireless devices. That way, if the wireless disconnects but the wired devices carry on working (which I'm guessing they will), then that is eliminating the fibre connection fully.

Im just not fully sure yet but im guessing ill have to manually set the ip/subnet of all wired devices because i presume the fibre box wont have a DCHP to issue them.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @MerseyRayUK 

Those DNS errors on the whole can be ignored. If there is nothing in the logs at that time, it suggests that the broadband is holding up okay, which is at least a first step. I would agree that a purple light is an undocumented condition. It is just that when you said it was the Hub 3, I wanted to clarify that it wasn't caused by the way that the correct version of Hub 3 can easily mislead people. It does not have a light on the front of it, but underneath. This means that some colours can be influenced by the surface it is standing on & how it reflects off of that. This all tallies with the log, so let's move on.

The fact that once again there are no log entries supports what you said, that the WiFi remains connected, but no data is flowing over it. To this end, I now need to do some very serious diagnostics, reasonably simple for you, but I need to analyse individual Wi_Fi IP packets, to see what is going on. This is likely to take up quite a bit of my time. 

To this end, I will need you to install a piece of free software on your PC & capture a trace from this tool at the time of the problem. I can provide full details about what this software is, how you take & save a capture trace for me. You then send me that trace for analysis.

If you are happy to go down that route, then I will send you my guide on how to do this.

[MerseyRayUK]

Hi Keith,

What in the logs would you like me to send.

When the LAN stops working, I check the logs and there is nothing to say anything is disconnected, just all the DNS errors are there.

Why would the logs fill with DNS errors on here yet not 1 on the old router.

One of the DNS errors points to the service that provides the SSL connections to websites, which seems a big issue for me.

[MerseyRayUK]

Hi Keith,

It is 1000% a purple light. Where I sit in the lounge, I can see the router in the hallway.  The difference between the white when it is working and that purple is day and night.

Sorry, I think that photo may be the old router, but that is the same purple that shows on the new router. It only shows that when then LAN stops working, otherwise it is perfectly clear white.

I'll check the device info when I return home (after 5pm), tomorrow I am home all day so can do testing during the day too.

TT Tech has scheduled another call with me today after 5pm so I can update them on the progress with this new router.