Incorrectly Billed for calls to a Talk Talk Phone Number

[inkie]

On my December bill with no prior notice, I  started to be charged for ALL calls to a landline number that has always been free. The number in question is for a customer xfered to Fleur Telecom (by Talk Talk) and has always been designated a Talk Talk phone number.

It proved impossible to speak to anyone in customer services to resolve this issue. Eventually, via chat the £40 call charges were "waved". It was also  confirmed in the chat that the number in question was a "Talk Talk number" and that calls to "other Talk Talk numbers" remain free (for 90 mins).  I have now been charged £7.20 for a 29 min call to the same number again on 30th December.  At NO time have I been told that calls to customers with Fleur Telecom are now chargeable. How do I get somebody at Talk Talk to resolve this issue as it is impossible to speak to anybody in customer services?  Thanks!

[Gliwmaeden2]

Just an incidental clarification, @inkie.

The Boost for unlimited calls gives calls to 01, 02, 03 and ordinary mobiles for up to an hour at a time.

The Talktalk customer to Talktalk customer deal has always been 180 minutes.

No idea why the agent mentioned 90 minutes - and we have checked this behind the scenes. That only works, however, if you are sure that the person you are ringing is a Talktalk customer  - part of the point of your thread.

[inkie]

I suspect the migration was back in 2015 or 2016 but will let you know once I can confirm. Not sure where the 180 mins is coming from - it used to be 60 mins but is now 90 mins?
Regardless of what TalkTalk do or do not think was agreed for migrated numbers to Fleur, the  facts are clear- the number was type TalkTalk free before it was transferred to Fleur and  remained type TalkTalk free after the transfer right up until the call type was changed to Uk local or national without any notice whatsoever between 23rd and 27th November 2023.  
Other customers who dial Fleur numbers (if this was a mass database update) won’t notice if they have  paid to add UK calls to their phone  package. Customers will only notice the change if they have no inclusive call package. 
TBH all  I am looking for is a refund of the £7.20 charged after the agent told me on 16th Dec the number should still be free and a definitive confirmation from TalkTalk that  Fleur numbers are now call type Uk local & national. Thanks!

[Gondola]

Two of the TalkTalk team that have picked up my request have both indicated that their understanding was the free 180 minute calls were for TalkTalk residential landline to TalkTalk residential landline only.  We're waiting on the Billing team for confirmations. There seems to be no knowledge of an agreement for free calls to migrated Fleur Telecom customers hence needing to try and find some copy to cover this point. 

I did a search for Fleur Telecom topics but didn't find any of relevance. Do you have a date for your Fleur Telecom customer being migrated out?

[inkie]

Hi Gondola, thanks for the update. The info was likely provided to the (now) Fleur telecom customer at the time of transfer, but I do remember I also verbally  confirmed it with TalkTalk to be doubly sure at the time, but we are talking several years ago.  The customer is not tech savvy and lives some distance away from me so  I won’t be able to check immediately. I seem to also remember this  subject cropped up in archived community posts but I have not had time to see if I can get access to those.

The change for me happened within  a specific 5 day window so the billing team will be able to tell from system audit logs who made the change and why. I just need  the £7.20  refunded and definitive confirmation if this number will remain type “national or local Uk” or if it will be reverted back to type “TalkTalk free” as it was prior to 27th Nov 2023.

Thanks for your ongoing help, it is appreciated.

[Gondola]

Hi @inkie 

How are you getting on? Happy New Year.  Just to say I'm still on the case regarding the free TalkTalk landline to TalkTalk landline calls.

Any joy in finding documentation on the status of free 180 minute calls from TalkTalk landlines to migrated customer Fleur Telecom landlines?  I'm in discussion with the Help Content team that are right now liaising with the Billing team. So, if there is information available that you can post, please do. Thanks again.

[Gondola]

Don't worry I've raised the issue for you and the only other Consumer customer that was charged for calling a TalkTalk Business number when that was previously seen to be included as a free TalkTalk landline customer call.

If you or the Fleur customer can find the relevant documentation that would help.

[inkie]

I think we are broadly in agreement on this topic. In my case, they have failed to notify me of either a change or a past error with this numbers call type assignment which has only recently been discovered.

In my  chat with an agent on Dec 16th, it was confirmed that calls to other TalkTalk numbers remained free and that the number should have been billed as call type TalkTalk and not Uk national/local. If the agent when asked had clearly stated all new calls to the number would henceforth be chargeable then I would have acted on that information accordingly.

i don’t doubt there are other TalkTalk customers who have or will get unexpected charges to Fleur numbers on their bills if they don’t have a landline call package. 

[Gondola]

You were advised correctly that calls to other TalkTalk landline customers up to 90 minutes are free. So you have been advised correctly.

What's needed is confirmation that the Fleur Telecom customer is defined as having a TalkTalk landline for the purposes of entitlement to you to call for free for up to 90 minutes. 

If TalkTalk were just correcting a billing error then they're also entitled to go back no more than 3 months to recover undercharging (Ofcom rules). So the key issue is to see confirmation (from you, that customer or TalkTalk) that the Fleur Telecom customer was defined in the last 3 months as having a TalkTalk landline for the purposes of free calls for you to them. Further confirmation from TalkTalk on whether they've made a business decision on defining what constitutes a TalkTalk landline. Particularly relevant now that the TalkTalk Group operates three independent units, Business Direct, Wholesale and Consumer that also offers Digital Voice (VOIP) services.

My understanding is TalkTalk Consumer customer home landline including digital voice but that does need to be clarified.

[inkie]

If I remember correctly, Fleur telecom was set up by Daisy Group back in 2015  under an agreement with TalkTalk to offload 4% of their (primarily)  rural customers who couldn’t receive  TalkTalks minimum broadband speed.
 When customers were transferred, I know for certain that both TalkTalk & Fleur confirmed  calls between TalkTalk numbers and  the xfered  numbers  would remain free. What is not known is if or when that situation changed. 

As long as TalkTalk confirm they will  remove the new unexpected £7.20 charge  and provide me with 30 days notice in writing that I will now be charged for any new calls I make to  the Fleur telecom number then that will make sense under standard T&C’s.  

[Gondola]

The TalkTalk Billing team did comment that the billing was a mistake so they could have meant that classing the calls to Fleur Telecom as free was the mistake. The billing team would have been notified if there was an agreed change so the change in your billing is unexpected all ways round.

We haven't seen any update on call costs so that's why I've asked for clarification on your behalf. I agree that any change to your material disadvantage does require a minimum 30 days' notification under TalkTalk T&C's if such a change is the result of a business decision made by TalkTalk.

[inkie]

Hi,  I would have to hunt for old paperwork given to the Fleur customer and me when the number was moved  from TalkTalk to Fleur Telecom as it was a few years ago. However, the evidence is clear from my bills. The number is listed as type “TalkTalk calls” up to and including 22nd Nov 2023. From 27th Nov 2023 it was changed by TalkTalk to call type  “local & national uk calls”.  

[Gondola]

I've already asked the Help content team for their guidance on your behalf.

Do you happen to have a link to this agreement on the continuation of free calls from TalkTalk landline customers to customers moved to Fleur Telecom? I don't see anything in the relevant FAQ for onetel customers moving to TalkTalk or onetel customers moving to Fleur Telecom.

Any documentation would be helpful to your case.

[inkie]

Thank you for the reply Gondola. Whilst I think you are correct on the ownership status of Fleur Telecom, when rural  TalkTalk customers were (forcibly) transferred to Fleur it was agreed that calls to the numbers moved over would remain free to TalkTalk customers.  All of my bills (including most of Decembers) list the Fleur Telecom number as a “free TalkTalk number”. This status suddenly changed with no notice half way through Decembers billing period. I was told on chat this was a “mistake”.
It may well  be that TalkTalk and Fleur Telecom have ended the agreement, however TalkTalk can not start charging calls to Fleur Telecom without notification to TalkTalk customers. The number is now being listed as a “local & national UK number” by the looks of it.

This needs somebody at TalkTalk to confirm that calls to  Fleur Telecom numbers will now be chargeable and give notice on the effective date. 

[Gondola]

Fleur Telecom customers are not TalkTalk Consumer customers. The telephone number may have originally been issued to TalkTalk. When customers were transferred to Fleur Telecom so the responsibility for the telephone service and its billing was transferred to Fleur Telecom and the number would now be in the name of Fleur Telecom.

TalkTalk also separated its divisions. TalkTalk Business Direct, TalkTalk Wholesale and TalkTalk Consumer are operating independently.  TalkTalk Business Direct was sold in October 2023 and so my understanding is that any business numbers are also not included as free TalkTalk to TalkTalk calls. I think this may need to be better documented to avoid misunderstanding.

The ownership of Fleur Telecom also may need clarification. Fleur Telecom was acquired by the Telecom Acquisitions Group (TAG) that is the owner of a number of small consumer businesses offering telecom services. These are customers of TalkTalk Wholesale and TalkTalk itself has a controlling stake in the Telecoms Acquisitions Group. This controlling stake does not qualify the consumer 'phone numbers of any of the consumer businesses that are part of TAG as TalkTalk numbers - even those numbers originally issued to TalkTalk and ported out of TalkTalk to any of these other telecoms businesses.