Poorer Speed when upgrading from Fibre500 to Fibre900

[JamesyD1]

I have just renewed contract and upgraded from FullFibre500 to 900. Yet I am definitely not getting the speeds I should and every speedtest results in around 200Mbs download.

When I try to get this sorted out via TalkTalk Customer Services I experience absolutely abysmal service and have been left holding for 20 mins and cut off both times. Then, using the call back service, the Technical Support agent who did call back then managed to cut me off again just as he was going to take me through security. I am now at the stage of making a formal complaint and questioning why on earth I would even have considered staying with TalkTalk at all.

[Thabile-TT]

Thank you for support @KeithFrench  

[KeithFrench]

Hi @JamesyD1 

You can easily see which WiFi band any of your devices are connected to via the eero app. Find the device via the Devices tab and then go to the Device Details screen. In there, look at the Connection section. It is not the eero (or any other router) that selects which band a device connects to; it is the device in question that makes that decision. It does this based on signal quality from the router (a mixture of signal strength & how much Wi-Fi interference is on that band. This is a topic that I can help with a lot if you want.

Most people find they get a better Wi-Fi coverage with two eeros, rather than one. I personally prefer the new WiFi Hub 3, which can also form a mesh network with the Sagemcom FAST 266 WiFi Booster. As to which you should have is nothing to do with me, it is between yourself & TalkTalk.

You can easily add extra Ethernet ports to the eero by purchasing a cheap Gigabit network switch. This is not a recommendation, but an example:-

TP-Link TL-SG105S 5 Port Gigabit Ethernet Network Switch, Ethernet Splitter 1 to 4, Network 4 Way Et...TP-Link TL-SG105S 5 Port Gigabit Ethernet Network Switch, Ethernet Splitter 1 to 4, Network 4 Way Et...

The location of the eero is absolutely vital. The gateway mesh, or standalone router, connects directly to the ONT (assuming Full Fibre), but does not have to be located near it. The same goes for any standalone router as well. Longer (Cat 6 minimum) Ethernet cables can be purchased to move this mesh gateway to a better position. Any extender mesh node should be located approximately halfway between the Gateway mode and the dead zone.

These apply to each standalone router or mesh node (Gateway & Extender(s)). Each eero must be:-

• Out in the open, not shut away in a cupboard.
• The location should be reasonably high and most certainly never on the floor and near the centre of your property, if possible.

Never site any mesh Gateway or Extender nodes near:-

• Other electronic equipment (TVs, speakers, etc).
• Bluetooth devices (especially speakers) – they operate on the same Wi-Fi frequency (2.4GHz), which can cause signal problems for this band.
• House plants (with tightly packed soil in pots) can absorb or deflect Wi-Fi signals.
• Glass, mirrors or water tanks, etc. Do not expect Wi-Fi signals to pass through such objects.
• Large metal objects - radiators, for instance- will have the same effect on your Wi-Fi as mirrors.
• Boilers can absorb Wi-Fi signals like a sponge.
• Do not locate it in a kitchen due to the metal in any large appliances, such as washing machines or fridge freezers, etc. Do not assume that Wi-Fi signals will pass through these items either, as they normally contain metal.
• Do not block the Wi-Fi signals with large furniture, such as sofas and tables etc.
• Keep away from wireless doorbell pushes/speakers (not to be confused with video doorbells operating over Wi-Fi devices from manufacturers such as Ring, TP-Link or Reolink, etc).
• Do not locate them near any cordless phone base stations.

[JamesyD1]

Hi Keith

Many thanks for your comprehensive advice on this. I have digested it all and have a few comments/queries:

- I have only the one eero Pro 6 router which is the same one as when I took-out Fibre500 last year

- Because the eero has only 2 ports and I have the VoiP for phone, there is no available port for ethernet. 

- The devices which are connected via wifi include 2 security cameras, 3 lights, Amazon Firestick (limited periods in evenings) 2 mobile phones and a Windows 11 laptop. This laptop is 12 months old and has a Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) adapter

- I can check which band the wifi connection is using  -  but only on the Windows laptop using the Windows wifi settings info.

It is currently on the 5GHz band (channel 104), but I have no means of being able to select or default this and certainly cannot on the other devices. This, I believe, is because the eero 6 does not facilitate the selection of band on devices...? 

- As a sidebar - we have another house with a totally different FTTH service with a FritzBox 7350 router and this has dual band. But it transmits the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands separately such that any device can log-in to each discretely. I am not sure if/why the eero does not provide this.

- Speed tests have been run via wifi from the laptop (not on the eero app) using Okla whilst connected on 5GHz and this is situated approx 15 feet distance from the eero through a wall. This is an old and relatively small house. 

- Max speed achieved as 230Mbs   -  no different or even lower than when on the Fibre500 service which was usually at around 350Mbs with all the same set-up and same laptop.

So, I am wondering if the eero is the problem  -  I was always very skeptical of this router right from the start last year when I had problems with the original set-up and not least because it seems to have poor coverage even though this is a small house. Plus, it has such a limited number of ports (I would prefer to set-up ethernet connections). Compared with the 6 year old router in our other house, the eero is like a toy.

Do you think TalkTalk should have - or were supposed to -  upgrade the router to the Wifi Hub 3? I suspect they should have and it would be pretty consistent with poor service levels that they didn't.

Thanks very much again.

[siphosethu-TT]

Thank you very much @KeithFrench.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @JamesyD1 

Whilst upgrading from FF500 to FF900 shouldn't give you a slower speed, there is no simple answer to this. To recitfy can require both a long & complex reply, so no apologies for this.

The Full Fibre 500 or 900 packages often mean that customers do not achieve the speeds they expect (obviously around 500 or 900Mbps). Firstly, you typically do not need the fastest speed possible on just one device, but rather enough speed to accomplish your tasks without compromising performance across all devices. As an example:-

1. Up to 15Mbps – basic online activities such as web browsing, emails and watching low-resolution videos.
2. 15-50Mbps – HD video streaming and managing a small number of smart devices in the home.
3. 50-100Mbps – 4K video streaming on one or two devices, online gaming, and supporting a limited number of smart devices in the home.
4. 100Mbps or more – 4K video streaming on multiple devices and supporting a good number of smart devices around the home.

However, I can help you achieve the fastest speeds possible on your devices. This is often not an issue with the design of these services, but rather the connection between these devices and the router. Your device must not be connected to the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi band; otherwise, it will never deliver such speeds. No other devices must be in use at the time of any speed tests, because Wi-Fi is a shared medium. This means that it works half-duplex (one direction at a time), device A transmits and receives its data separately. Then it is the turn of device B, followed by C, etc.

The Wi-Fi network adapters in these devices often cannot deliver speeds as fast as the fibre service can. Take the example of some older Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) adapters, which might work at speeds up to 433Mbps only if used in a perfect wireless environment, which most homes are not. When an internet speed test is performed, the speed achieved is down to the slowest link in the chain, namely the 433Mbps Wi-Fi adapter. Speed tests in this case might achieve somewhere around 400Mbps or less.

Older Ethernet connections can suffer as well. If a device only supports the 10/100Mbps standard, not 1000Mbps (1Gbps) or even the newer 2.5Gbps available on some desktop PCs, they are likely to only record 100Mbps on a speed test.

To get close to the 500/900Mbps on a speed test, that device must either have a minimum of a 1Gbps Ethernet connection or, if wireless, a faster Wi-Fi adapter. This would be a higher specification Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) or Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) adapter.

While Wi-Fi 6 is not designed to boost download speeds significantly, the new features will allow more connected devices. That said, faster speeds (up to 2.4Gbps) will be available if the environmental conditions in your property allow the use of a 160MHz channel bandwidth. Using 160MHz requires a very clean RF spectrum — a wide contiguous block without DFS radar activity or interference. To fully understand this requires detailed knowledge of channel allocation for it to work; otherwise, the router will fall back to an 80MHz channel bandwidth. Simply enabling 160MHz in the AP configuration is nowhere near enough. Currently, this means that it is very unlikely to work in the 5GHz Wi-Fi band, as all 160MHz channels cross into the DFS channel range (52 - 140); only the 6GHz band with Wi-Fi 6E or Wi-Fi 7 can be used.

I would not recommend using multiple eero 6 units on the FF500 or 900 services. TalkTalk, before supplying the Wi-Fi Hub 3 for these packages, used to provide the eero Pro 6 for them. One reason is that the eero Pro 6 is tri-band (1 x 2.4GHz and 2 x 5GHz Wi-Fi bands), allowing the backhaul network (connection between eeros) to maintain a faster speed. The eero 6 would therefore probably need an Ethernet-connected backhaul rather than using wireless, if it is required to use these slower, dual-band eeros. It may also not switch data fast enough for the increased speed of these packages.

There are some basic checks that you can do to ensure that your devices have the best chance of achieving these higher speeds:-

1. Check that these devices are connected to the 5GHz Wi-Fi band, not the 2.4GHz band. If you have the eero Pro 6, then as many devices as possible should be using the 5GHz (High) band.
2. Which eero Pro 6 (if applicable) is each device connected to? It should always be the gateway or closest/fastest extender node. The more extender nodes that you go through to get to the gateway, the slower the speed will always be. In fact, you will probably need to be connected to the gateway to have any chance of these speeds. Additionally, with the eero Pro 6, any device capable of a 2402Mbps link speed must be connected to the 5GHz (High) Wi-Fi band and use a 160MHz channel bandwidth, which is very unlikely to work due to environmental conditions. The 5GHz (Low) band is not as high a specification as the 5GHz (High) one.
3. To aid with step 2 (again for eeros), is "Client Steering" enabled within the eero app, as well as "Local DNS Caching"?
4. Have you checked for Wi-Fi interference, a topic that I can provide a lot of help with?

[siphosethu-TT]

You are most welcome. 

[JamesyD1]

Many thanks for that direct number. 

[siphosethu-TT]

Hi @JamesyD1 I am sorry for the journey you have had so far in trying to get this resolved, this is not the type of experience we would want you to have. 

Please use the below details to get in touch with our full fibre team will be able to assist you further.

Contact Number: 03451720074  

Opening Hours: 

VOICE - Mon-Fri: 9am-7pm; Sat: 9am-6pm; Sun: closed

WEB MESSAGING - Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm; Sat: 8am-7pm; Sun: 9am-7pm

Alternatively, you can use the below link and chat to one of our specialists:

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/Our-live-chat-team/ta-p/2230529

[JamesyD1]

Hi

Many thanks for the swift reply. I appreciate the advice re. complaints. I have had similar experience in the past when taking out Fibre in the first place and TalkTalk do have a very poor record on customer service, so sometimes its the only way to get things done.

Meanwhile, when you say 'the Full Fibre Team'  -  I am not sure how they are different or contactable other than via the single Customer Service number 0345 172 0088  -  and the menu options. It seems to be one team (not in the UK of course) dealing with everything. Contacting this number is a just a menu-driven plot to get you to use an online means and I am am pretty sure whatever I do I am re-entering the same loop I described already.

[fr8ys]

Sorry to hear of your woes 

Unfortunately staff here do not have access to full fibre systems so are unable to help with this 

Your only route is really to speak to the full fibre team.

If you are considering a complaint, the complaints procedure can be found at the foot of each web page. This can be a slower route sometimes so I'd recommend trying the full fibre team again first, then if no joy consider the complaints route.

Bear in mind that once in the complaints system support staff in other departments are precluded from offering help .