Router changing channels

[chrisncc1701]

Hi, I've just received a new router, sagecom fast 5464, it keeps changing WiFi channels after I have set them, is it possible to stop this happening, thanks very much

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

Since you have moved the 2.4GHz band of your Huawei router to channel 11, this Wi-Fi band looks much healthier. There may be an issue with the 5GHz band on your Sagemcom, as you have chosen to use a DFS channel. Not all 5GHz devices will support the DFS channels 52 - 140. This band also supports a service that is of higher priority than 802.11 Wi-Fi. If that service is detected, then you will immediately be moved to another channel. That will be the router doing that, not Wi-Fi optimisation. If a router can use this channel range, then equally it must yield to this higher priority service.

[mandisa1-TT]

Thank you so much for the support @KeithFrench 

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

Thanks for confirming your network names. Whilst your 2.4GHz band is never going to be very good, due to the amount of networks using it, there is a problem with your Huawei router. You must not use channel 8 as that interferes with both channels 6 & 11. It is this router misconfiguration that I would expect, based on other routers' signal strength at the time, that is forcing Wi-Fi Optimisation to keep changing your channels.

The only channels that should ever be used within this band are 1, 6 & 11, as they are the only non-overlapping channels. Don't take my word for this, it is covered in these articles:-

http://www.metageek.com/training/resources/why-channels-1-6-11.html

https://community.ui.com/questions/Choosing-the-right-Wifi-Channel-on-2-4Ghz-Why-Conventional-Wisdom... 

[KeithFrench]

The customer has supplied me with analyser screenshots, which I will analyse once he has confirmed which WiFi networks are his.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

Thanks for the screenshots. 

However, you have Wi-Fi scan throttling enabled as it mentions at the top of the time graph & AP screenshots

This is a feature, primarily found in Android operating systems, that limits how frequently apps can scan for Wi-Fi networks to conserve battery life and improve network performance. If disabled, faster Wi-Fi speeds could be achieved on this device. Android limits the number of Wi-Fi scans that apps can perform within a certain time frame. Foreground apps (apps currently in use) are allowed a limited number of scans, while background apps (apps running in the background) have even stricter limits.

This will cause most Wi-Fi analyser apps to not display the most accurate information. When doing such analysis, Wi-Fi Scan throttling must be disabled. 

From Android V8.0, Wi-Fi scans are limited to 4 scans in a few seconds and then have to wait 2–3 minutes. The user can override this setting in device settings (manual below). If the user has successfully enabled the developer options, Wi-Fi scan throttling can be disabled.

Availability of this feature can be limited by the manufacturer or the Android OS version.

Please can you disable this & send me a fresh copy of all screenshots?

Thanks,

To disable Wi-Fi Scan throttling on your Android device, first enable Developer mode:-

1. On Android 13, go to Settings > About phone or About device (this may be located under System).

2. Locate the Build number and tap on it seven times in quick succession. Then enter the phone’s PIN number as confirmation (not the SIM PIN if enabled). This will enable Developer options on your device.

3. Go back to Settings > System > Developer options

4. Scroll down to the Networking section and turn off Wi-Fi scan throttling:-

You do this at your own risk.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

I know that you posted a couple of screenshots earlier from your analyser. I am going to delete these shortly, as being in this public forum, the whole world can see your SSID, etc.

All I can glean from that is that the 2.4GHz band is probably oversubscribed & Wi-Fi Optimisation doesn't have much of a chance. However, to be sure, you will need to PM me screenshots of all views it offers, namely:-

1. Access Points – this shows all Wi-Fi bands (2.4, 5 & 6GHz) in one display. Please make sure by scrolling down the display that all of your networks are included in the screenshot. If needs be, get as many screenshots of this display to include them all.
2. Channel graphs– please get one screenshot per band (2.4, 5 & if applicable 6GHz).
3. Time Graphs – please get one screenshot per band (2.4, 5 & if applicable 6GHz).

I will wait for you to send these to me.

[chrisncc1701]

Hi, the router is in a reasonable optimum position, high up in the middle of the house (small semi) it continues to change channels, usually to occupied ones, the interference increases depending on where you are in the house, therefore the routers selection of channels is not any good, if optimization cannot be switched off due to some policy, this is another step backwards, please could you offer any other suggestions, it would be much appreciated 

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

Please see my previous post.

[chrisncc1701]

The 5ghz band is unusable in some parts of the house after the router has optimised, and some of my devices reset when channels change on 2.4ghz, I've been with talktalk a long time, but will have to look elsewhere now as optimization cannot be turned off

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

Location of the router is very important. 

Location recommendations to maximise performance
The gateway mesh or stand alone router, which connects directly to the ONT (assuming Full Fibre), does not have to be located near it. The same goes for any standalone router as well. Longer (Cat 6 minimum) Ethernet cables can be purchased to move this mesh gateway to a better position. Any extender mesh node should be located approximately halfway between the Gateway mode and the dead zone.

These apply to each stand alone router or mesh node (Gateway & Extender(s)):-

• Each node must be out in the open, not shut away in a cupboard.
• The location should be reasonably high and most certainly never on the floor.
• Never site any mesh Gateway or Extender nodes near other electronic equipment (TVs, speakers, etc).
• Bluetooth devices (especially speakers) – they operate on the same Wi-Fi frequency (2.4GHz), which can cause signal problems for this band.
• Glass, mirrors or water tanks, etc. Do not expect Wi-Fi signals to pass through such objects.
• Large metal objects - radiators, for instance- will have the same effect on your Wi-Fi as mirrors.
• Boilers can absorb Wi-Fi signals like a sponge.
• Do not locate it in a kitchen due to the metal in any large appliances, such as washing machines or fridge freezers, etc. Do not assume that Wi-Fi signals will pass through these items either, as they normally contain metal.
• Do not block the Wi-Fi signals with large furniture, such as sofas and tables, etc.
• Keep away from wireless doorbell pushes/speakers (not to be confused with video doorbells operating over Wi-Fi devices from manufacturers such as Ring, TP-Link or Reolink, etc).
• Do not locate them near any cordless phone base stations.

Desktop PC recommendations
If the PC has a tower case:-

• If the Wi-Fi adapter connects inside the case with antennae located behind the metal at the back of the case, this will restrict Wi-Fi signals from being received or transmitted from it. Try to purchase an SMB magnetic mount extension to get the antennae above the case.
• If it is a USB Wi-Fi adapter, use a USB socket on the front of the PC, as there is more open space around it than at the rear. If a USB extension cable is used, try to ensure that it is fairly short so that the power from the computer is not attenuated. Long extension cables can cause the adapter to not have enough power from the computer to work correctly. Try again to look for a USB 3 extension unit. When buying such an adapter, always look for a USB 3 model as a minimum and connect it to a USB 3 socket on the PC.

[chrisncc1701]

EDIT: Screenshots removed to protect privacy.

[Gliwmaeden2]

@chrisncc1701, no, it's no longer possible to disable optimisation, as I said in my first reply. It cannot be done any more for any of the Talktalk Sagemcom routers.

It's a policy decision by the company and cannot be overridden by support staff.

It's been policy for the past year, so when it was done for you the previous March you were ahead of that change!

[chrisncc1701]

Hi, there is quite a lot of WiFi usage and interference, I use a WiFi analyzer to determine the best WiFi channels, especially on the 2.4ghz band, and set my old router accordingly, this stoped my espalexa devices from dropping out, is it not possible to disable optimisation on the new routers talktalk provide (sagemcom 5464)

[KeithFrench]

Hi @chrisncc1701 

When the channel keeps changing like this, it is usually because there is so much Wi-Fi interference that WiFi Optimisation cannot find a better channel.

Slow speed, intermittent dropouts, breaks in the signal or no signal on some or all devices or no internet access might be caused by Wi-Fi interference from other local networks, which can also lead to a permanent reduction in speed. No ISP can be responsible for your local environment; this is mainly a byproduct of the popularity of Wi-Fi.

Generally speaking, the 2.4GHz band suffers a lot more from interference than the much faster 5GHz band, but the 2.4GHz band can sometimes have a better range; however, this all depends on your local area.

In other words, I offer a free, impartial analysis of your Wi-Fi network and will try to help you optimise your Wi-Fi connection. The next stage involves sending out a guide to help you get me some important diagnostic results so that I can analyse them for you and recommend changes to your router configuration to solve them.

I only send this out to people who request it.

The information below is provided by TalkTalk. For confirmation, please contact @Lorrainef, the manager of the TalkTalk support staff on this forum.

KeithFrench is one of our valued Community Stars and can help with a range of issues related to wireless and networking. At times, he may ask you to send him test results via a Private Message to help analyse/diagnose an issue. Although Keith does not work for TalkTalk, he very kindly shares his time and knowledge to help others.

If you need further help or if we need to take any details such as personal information about your account, like phone numbers, account numbers, etc, one of the TalkTalk team will jump in and help out.

[Gliwmaeden2]

It's not possible to switch off "automatic optimisation", @chrisncc1701.

@KeithFrench may have time to offer suggestions.