Sagemcom 5363 router - devices disconnecting/using slow WiFi channels - firmware upgrade?

[SimonSimon82]

Hi,

I have the Sagemcom 5363 router, and the current software is 174 - is there a later version please? Asking because for many months now, my connection keeps disconnecting my devices randomly when using them (noticing when using laptops, and streaming on Sky boxes also buffering lots at times), and also have to constantly spend time changing wifi channels (hops between 2 and 5ghz) to find one with a decent connection speed, for it only to hop to other channels automatically (and repeat).

Wondered if the firmware needs updating, or if this could be something else please? Could my router be faulty?

Thank you, Simon.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @SimonSimon82 

Does the router location meet my recommendations:-

Obviously, this is not always practical, and a compromise has to be reached. Where Full Fibre is concerned, the router connected to the ONT can easily be moved to a better location via a longer Cat 6 minimum, Ethernet cable.

The general rule is do not keep them in a cupboard, but out in the open and sited as high & centrally within the property. Keep them away from:-

1. Cordless phone (DECT) base stations
2. TVs
3. Loudspeakers & any sub-woofers (including those used with a PC)
4. Computer monitors
5. Electrical appliances – they often transmit their own signals that can interfere with Wi-Fi signals.
6. Bluetooth devices – they operate on the same Wi-Fi frequency as your broadband, which can cause signal problems.
7. Mirrors – they actually reflect Wi-Fi signals, stopping them from passing through walls and reflecting them back into the room.
8. Anything containing large amounts of water – things like fish tanks and boilers can absorb Wi-Fi signals like a sponge.
9. Large metal objects – radiators, for instance, will have the same effect on your Wi-Fi as mirrors. If you have a tower PC case with an internal WiFi card, the metal of the case can block signals to & from the antennae if they are located behind the tower case.
10. Glass - different types of glass can cause problems for Wi-Fi signals to pass through:-

a) Thick window glass or glazing can block Wi-Fi signals.
b) Low-emissivity (Low-E) windows have a metallic film that can reflect and block Wi-Fi signals more than clear glass.
c) Tinted glass often has a metallic film that can interfere with radio signals.
d) K glass double glazing has a metal vapour coating that can reduce Wi-Fi signal strength by 30-50%.

What follows is a bit complex, but it needs to be considered to explain why, in some areas of the UK, Wi-Fi can seem very unreliable using most of the channels from 52 to 140.

All hardware operating in this channel range must conform to DFS (Dynamic Frequency Selection) standards and TPC (Transmit Power Control) & both of these facilities must be enabled. This is because these channels operate in the same frequency range as some radar & weather services which have a higher priority than WiFi. DFS & TPC being enabled will allow detection of such services on the selected channel & an AP is not allowed to broadcast out on this channel if radar is detected.

Further to this, if radar is subsequently detected on the channel currently being used, an AP must stop transmitting immediately & move to a new channel, normally in the range of 36 to 48. If the router moved to another channel within the 52 - 140 range, then this will cause problems for the user as they could lose Wi-Fi connectivity for around 1 minute or longer.

With the 5GHz band, using any DFS channels, there are a couple of caveats with this:-

1. Once the channel is selected, there will be a delay of about 60 seconds before the router will broadcast out the network on this channel.
2. Channels 52 - 140 despite being permitted for use in the UK, not all network adapters in your devices may support this channel range. Please check that all 5G compatible devices work on the selected channel.

[SimonSimon82]

Hi Keith,

Have you identified an issue in the results?

Im unsure what DFS channels means - could you briefly advise?

The router is plugged directly into the master socket (5C), and is in the next room a very short distance away - is this what you need please?

Thank you, Simon.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @SimonSimon82 

I have analysed your snapshot etc, WiFi Optimisation will always try & move you off DFS channels. To allow me to determine the problem further, please can you describe the location of the 5364 within your property?

[SimonSimon82]

Hi @KeithFrench ,

I attach here the snapshots and reports as requested. This zip file is password protected, and I have sent you the password via PM.

Look forward to hearing from you on next step.

Thank you, Simon.

[Gliwmaeden2]

It's important to start your own thread for this, @Pabroon46.

Please return to the message board and click on start a topic. 

Also complete your Personal Information details in the profile area (via your avatar, settings....SAVE CHANGES).

Staff will respond to your new thread after the weekend. 

[Pabroon46]

I have been having problems with my talktalk router disconnecting from the internet. Wi-Fi is still showing, but each time, I have to reboot the router, and it reconnects. It seems to occur randomly. I have had all the chat/bot conversations and line tests say all is working - which it is, until it’s not. It is a very irritating problem. In desperation, I have started using another router hub from Nowtv, and there is no problem with that one. After many long conversations with Talktalk about whether my router needs replacing or updated, I was promised a call back to discuss things. That was a week ago, but I’ve heard nothing. 

[KeithFrench]

Hi @SimonSimon82 

I will forward my recommendations to @Debbie-TalkTalk based on the evidence I collate from the diagnostics I receive from you. If I think a booster will help, I will inform TalkTalk of that.

[SimonSimon82]

Thanks Keith,

I will have a look at what you have sent me within the next few days hopefully and we’ll go from there.

@Debbie-TalkTalk Im unsure how these work, but could a booster maybe help what I’m experiencing also?

Thank you,

Simon.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @SimonSimon82 

When I have analysed the results, I will share my recommendation both with you & TalkTalk.

Do not worry about interpreting the results, I will do that for you. I will send a PM to you that contains a link for a guide of mine on Wi-Fi interference. It is quite long (about 30 pages), but you will probably only need to look at three or four pages in total. Initially look at the section called "Are you suffering from interference – prove it first". This is the first link in the table of contents. This section includes full details of free Wi-Fi analysers that I recommend for Windows, Windows phone, Android and Apple operating systems. However, I have no way of testing the Apple product. Select the analyser of your choice & my guide explains how to use it.

If you are using Wi-Fi Scanner, then please attach the zip file to this thread. As soon as I have downloaded it, I will remove the attachment from your post, to preserve your privacy.

With all other analysers, please follow my instructions below.

Collect the screenshots that I require and include them in your reply.

Please post the screenshots to me in a PM (to protect your privacy), which I have requested in my guide. No photos please as they can be difficult to read, because the text can get out of focus when zoomed in. Please ensure that the analyser window is maximised (if Windows) before taking the screenshots & upload them via the "Insert Photos" button (in a mobile browser it's the picture icon) on the post editor's toolbar with the Size parameter set to Large.

[SimonSimon82]

Hi Keith,

I will try anything to resolve this - slightly inconvenient and embarrassing when I can’t even stay connected to a work MS Teams call due to channel changes and dropouts (having to manually keep selecting a different channel until I find a useable one). Also basic streaming services like Netflix etc buffering sometimes when my sync speed of the router at approx 60mb/s should be able to handle these basic things.

Please do send me the guide you are referring to, as I say, I will try anything.

Im unsure how these work, but could maybe a booster help what I’m experiencing also?

Thanks, Simon.

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Thanks Keith.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @SimonSimon82 

@Debbie-TalkTalk has asked me to help you  I doubt if the new firmware will do anything in respect of the WiFi reception. There will be lots of DNS errors in the system log, which is a bug with their classification level. I have reported it to TalkTalk.

Slow speed, intermittent dropouts, breaks in the signal or no signal on some or all devices or no internet access might be caused by Wi-Fi interference from other local networks, which can also lead to a permanent reduction in speed. No ISP can be responsible for your local environment, this is mainly a byproduct of the popularity of Wi-Fi.

Generally speaking, the 2.4GHz band suffers a lot more from interference than the much faster 5GHz band, but the 2.4GHz one can sometimes have a better range, but this all depends on your local area.

In other words, I try to help you optimise your Wi-Fi connection. The next stage involves sending out a guide to you to help you get me some important diagnostic results so that I can analyse them for you and recommend changes to your router configuration to solve them.

I only send this out to people who request it.

[SimonSimon82]

Hi Debbie,

Thanks for updating the firmware - guess I need to test to see if this behaves any differently before going ahead with anything further?

I don’t know too much, but when I was looking at the logs in the router settings last night, there were many errors listed, with lots of listings of devices disconnecting and connecting etc. Could you maybe look at these to see if this is usual please?

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Hi Simon

I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing issues.

I've updated your router firmware to the latest version.

Unfortunately we are no longer able to switch WIFI optimisation off. Our Community Star @KeithFrench offers really good advice on improving WIFI performance. Would you like Keith to take a look for you?

[ferguson]

Sadly, optimisation cannot be turned off. Let's see what else the support team can advise when they pick this up. 

[SimonSimon82]

Hi,

The ‘optimisation’ of the channels clearly doesn’t work (as when I manually have to change these when no connection, I’m eventually able to find a much faster (and useable) channel. I’ve heard this ‘optimisation’ can be switched off (so it doesn’t change automatically - can this be actioned?

Yes, some of my devices (mainly Sky Tv boxes can only use 2.4 band), otherwise I’d love to disable the 2.4 band, but not an option as far as I’m aware.

What is the process for having the firmware updated (to check if this could resolve my issue) please?

Could my router be faulty?

Could anything else help resolve this?

Thank you,

Simon.

[ferguson]

Nobody will be able to fix the channels changing I'm afraid, as this is monitored and supposedly "optimised" by a network level system.

As for the bands, do you have a mix of devices, some of which can only connect on the 2.4GHz band?

[SimonSimon82]

Thank you.

My details have now been added within my profile as requested, and I look forward to further support to rectify this.

Seems my devices/the router quite regularly switch between channels within the bands, and also switch between the bands too (2.4/5 etc). Also seems to select channels with very low connection speed (around 1mb), whereas my router is syncing at around 63mb. I manually change a channel until I get a faster/working connection, for it only sometimes be a short while before it automatically switches back/disconnects to a slower operating channel again. I seem to get in a constant loop / bad days of having to keep manually reselecting channels meanwhile being kicked out of work teams meetings etc.

Hoping the support team can offer a fix, be it software or hardware to resolve this.

I leave my router on most/all of the time (when things get really bad, I may restart the router to attempt to help).

Thank you,

Simon.

[ferguson]

Hi again @SimonSimon82 and thanks for starting your own topic.

Your router should update automatically, unless you are in the habit of switching it off regularly, or have TR-069 disabled. But yes, it is out of date and the support team here can fix that for you.

I am not sure regarding the WiFi whether you have devices hunting between different bands, or whether channels within a band are changing? They are two separate issues. 

In order for the support team to look into this for you make sure that your personal details including TalkTalk phone number and/or account number are complete on your community profile (click here) so that they can link your forum identity with your account and then wait for them to respond.