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Eero WiFi

spaarks11
Team Player
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 43 of 43

I am on 150Mbps full fibre with VoIP. Using an Eero 6 router.

Sometimes I am getting the full 150Mpbs, but the other half of the time it is down to 40-50Mbps.

The line speed (at my ONT) is steady at 150Mbps.

I have spent hours on chat with tech support, but the problem is unresolved.

I notice that the eero does not seem to auto select a quiet frequency. There is only one strong interfering signal (from my next door neighbour), which is on Ch1 and Ch36. My Eero sits right on top of these channels!  Not always on 2.4GHz, as the interfering signal is frequency-agile and often moves away from my eero.

There are a few signals on 2.4Ghz but apart from one they are low amplitude.

5Ghz is almost empty apart from the next door signal.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Dinny
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42 REPLIES 42

Message 21 of 43
Thanks for that very comprehensive explanation of the fdm channel naming conventions.
It is interesting that the number of 5GHz channels used depends on the data load. I assume a speed test will cause the use of all of the 20MHz channels within the chosen bandwidth.
 
What I would like to know is how the router determines what is the optimum frequency range over the whole band, and in particular why my router has settled on Ch42 the only frequency with an interfering signal. Does it have dynamic auto selection where it scans the 5GHz band regularly, or only when the router boots up.
Ignoring the DFS band there is one quiet 80MHz channel in the lower and two in the upper band.
 
My mobile phone jumps between 2.4 and 5GHz. My thinking is that my mobile sometimes detects the interference on ch42. I say sometimes because the interfering signal on Ch42 may be on the margin that the mobile considers to be unacceptable interference.
 
I have tried three mobiles of different make/model and they all show similar behavour, jumping between 2.4 and 5GHz, seemimgly at random.
 
 
Dinny
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Message 22 of 43

Many thanks. Looks fairly straightforward. I'll read it in detail over the weekend - I'm sure I'll have questions!

 

Dinny
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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 23 of 43

Hi @spaarks11 

 

For most people, the explanation that the 5GHz band handles Wi-Fi interference much better than the 2.4GHz band is all that I would normally say. However, you requested to understand exactly how this is. The only way to do that is via a long and complex post. Therefore, I make no apologies for the length.

Before starting to do this, it might help to understand some of the basics.

The basic 802.11 Wi-Fi specification dictates that 5MHz of the allocated frequency spectrum is used for each Wi-Fi channel. In the 2.4GHz band, channel 1 is 5MHz wide, as are each of the channels 2 to 11 or possibly 13 (depending on router chipset/country regulations allow). However, 5MHz is not practical and with the introduction of 802.11n, the Channel Bandwidth parameter was introduced for both the 2.4 and 5GHz bands. In the 2.4GHz band, four 5MHz channels are typically combined to make a 20MHz channel. This is why there is the recommendation to only use channels 1, 6 or 11 within this band, as they are the only non-overlapping channels. Using a 40MHz wide channel in the 2.4GHz band will typically take up 9 out of the normal 11 channels! To prevent such usage, the 5GHz band only allows the use of groups of four 5MHz channels that do not overlap, typically 36, 40, 44 or 48 within that channel range.

When selecting a channel in the 5GHz band, a single channel has not really been selected at all. This is effectively telling the router/AP/Mesh node to use the least used channel within that range. If a router/AP/Mesh node is configured to use channel 36, for example, it could actually be using any channel from 36 to 48. Using the default of 80MHz as an example, this will use all four channels to achieve this requirement.

However, this is one of several ways that the 5GHz band is much improved over the 2.4Ghz band. It handles Wi-Fi interference much better. When the bandwidth is set to 80MHz, you do not actually use all four channels 36 to 48 until you are transferring enough data to benefit from it. In reality, this means that at any time, you are only using one or possibly two of these channels. Let's say this was channels 36 and 40; it then leaves 44 and 48 for other networks to use. Therefore, the configured channel in the router/AP/Mesh node is in use within this band, a Wi-Fi analyser will display the actual channel currently in use. The high Wi-Fi theoretical data link speeds that are offered via the various specifications of both 802.11ac (Wi-Fi 5) and 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6), the actual throughput used is drastically cut down by the fibre speed (even with the 900M Full Fibre package).

I have purposely omitted mentioning the channels in the range of 52 to 140 as these are DFS channels, which will complicate matters much further due to the technical operation of this band of the frequency spectrum.

What further complicates this (or possibly simplifies this depending on opinion) is the introduction with Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) of a new channel naming convention. However, this is as it sounds: just a new method of naming these channels; it has no impact on Wi-Fi performance at all.

This new channel naming convention makes referencing these extra-wide (up to 160Mz) channels easier. Instead of listing all channel numbers, channels are numbered by their centre channel number of the group of channels.

Take the example of the channel range 36 – 48, the centre channel number is 42, which is not selectable in routers not using this new convention, as the actual channels they allow to be configured are 36, 40, 44 and 48. It was seen earlier that selecting, say, channel 40, simply means using any channel from 36 to 48. Therefore, the new naming convention just allows the selection of channel 42 to represent this group of channels.

With this naming convention, the next term to understand is the Control Channel. This is the actual 20MHz channel that is currently in use for 802.11 control and management frames (e.g. Beacons), along with customer data.

Not all router/AP/Mesh nodes comply with this new naming convention. Certainly, the eero range of products does conform, which is why, in the eero app under WiFi Radio Analytics, this might be seen:-

Channel: 155
Control channel: 149
Channel bandwidth: 80MHz.

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 24 of 43

OK, but it'll be tomorrow now.

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
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Message 25 of 43

Yes, please elaborate. Hopefully I'll understand some of it.

 

Simplistically I assumed the Eero would scan the band and determine which channels were quietest.

 

 

Dinny
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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 26 of 43

Hi @spaarks11 

 

The way that the 5GHz band (whatever router/device combination) is totally different to the 2.4GHz band.

 

The sort of behaviour you are seeing is perfectly normal. I can explain in more detail if you want, but it may get a bit complex.

 

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
TalkTalk support and Community Stars - Who are they? 

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Message 27 of 43

Received and installed the new Eero. The bandwidth is 20MHz on the 2.4GHz band, as it should be, and is on the 2.4GHz channel with the lowest interfering signals.

There is the same issue on 5GHz where the Eero is on Ch36 - right on top of the only interfering signal on the band. The interfering signal is about 10dBm down on the Eero. Perhaps it is below the threshold where the Eero will switch channels.

 

On 2.4GHz the best speed I get is around 40Mbps, even with all my other devices switched off. Is this the best 2.4GHz will do?

Dinny
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Message 28 of 43

Replacement Eero received and installed. Thanks.

The bandwidth on 2.4GHz is 20MHz, as it should be.

There is still an issue with the router on 5GHz sitting on the same channel as the only other interfering signal on the 5GHz band but I suspect this is a systemic issue, and not with my Eero itself.

Dinny
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Message 29 of 43

Hi @spaarks11 

 

Please see my Private Message, there will be no charge for the eero I've ordered, please disregard the email received.

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Message 30 of 43

TalkTalk is charging me £89 for the replacement Eero. I don't accept this because the replacement is to fix a faulty connection.

Dinny
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Message 31 of 43

Thanks for the Private Message @spaarks11 

 

The eero is on its way 🙂

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Message 32 of 43

Thanks @KeithFrench 

 

Hi @spaarks11 

 

Are you happy for me to send a replacement eero?

KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 33 of 43

I don't think there is any other option then but to get it replaced. I will ask TalkTalk to do this for you. They will hopefully pick up my request tomorrow.

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
TalkTalk support and Community Stars - Who are they? 

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Message 34 of 43

Apologies for any delay in responding - I am having difficulty connecting to Community.

 

  • The Eero is in the open in the hallway, sitting on top of a cabinet and about 1m off the floor.
  • There are no devices nearby apart from the ONT and VoIP adaptor.
  • There are no large metal objects or water tanks nearby.
    There are no electrically nor wirelessly noisy devices nearby.

 

Over the past few weeks I have reset the Eero several times (hold bottom button for 20 secs until status light blinks).

 

Meantime, do we have enough info to proceed your item 3. - to changing out the Eero?

I am away from home at present but will be back this week.

 

Thanks

Dinny
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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 35 of 43

Hi @spaarks11 @Debbie-TalkTalk 

 

Strangely, in the 2.4GHz band, the eero selects to use 40MHz channel bandwidth; it should use 20MHz. In addition to this, it would also be much better on channel 6. I have never seen an eero behave like this, so I can only presume that one of these is the culprit:-

  1. Something near the eero is interfering with it.
  2. The eero needs a hard reset
  3. The eero is faulty.

Taking the easiest first, please can you describe to me roughly where in your property the eero is located?

  • Is it shut away in a cupboard or out in the open?
  • How far off the floor is it?
  • What electronic equipment, large metal objects, glass or water tanks etc are around it or in line of sight with your devices?

Please feel free to PM me with the answers if you prefer.

 

Once I know the location information, I will make a recommendation based on that.

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 36 of 43

I am currently waiting on a complete set of screenshots from one WiFi analyser. So far, I have only received a mixture of information from two different analysers.

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
TalkTalk support and Community Stars - Who are they? 

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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 37 of 43

Just click my Avatar to the left of this message. When that loads up, use the "send message" button.

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
TalkTalk support and Community Stars - Who are they? 

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Message 38 of 43
Thanks for stepping in. How can I PM you?
 
My SSID is Iolar.
 
To elaborate a little. On 2.4GHz Eero seems stuck on ch1.  However next door Sky signal is agile and often moves to ch11.
Eero has a 40MHz bandwidth on 2.4, considered to be anti-social but prob doesn't matter in this quiet environment. The other signals are 20.
On 5GHz Eero is stuck on ch36, Sky is too. I assume Eero will prefer 5GHz, as there is only one single block wall between Eero and all my rooms.
The only strong interfering signal is from Sky next door, the other signals are from two floors down.
 
My speeds are half the time 150Mbps and half the time around 40Mbps· There is never anything in between, which suggests to me it could be switching channels, or bands.
 
My network is lightly loaded except at weekends when there are 3 tv's streaming and games. Otherwise streaming from 1 tv late evenings, one or two mobiles, two security cams, a weather station, and a PC.
 
I will PM the screenshots once I know how to PM you.
Dinny
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KeithFrench
Community Star
Private Message TalkTalk
Message 40 of 43

Hi @spaarks11 

 

@Debbie-TalkTalk has asked me to help you. You have obviously used a WiFi analyser, please can you PM me (to preserve your privacy) screenshots from it? Not knowing which one you are using, I need to see as a minimum these views:-

 

AP view

2.4GHz channels

5GHz channels 

Signal strength/time graph having run for 5 mins.

 

I also need to know your SSID (WiFi network name).

 

Keith
I am not employed by TalkTalk, I'm just a customer. If my post has fixed the issue, please set Accept as Solution from the 3 dot menu.
TalkTalk support and Community Stars - Who are they? 

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