Loss of Landline after Full Fibre cable installed.

[JimS28]

Had Full Fibre cable installed (Monday, 13/02/23), for the internet, but was wanting to keep the copper cable for my landline, as I have a copper wired internal extension sytem in the house.

I was advised by TalkTalk, that the copper wire connection would remain, and I would be a 'keeper', enabling me to use my existing phones and extensions.  However, since the installation, I have no live connection at the original BT Master socket and, subsquently, I am unable to use my existing telephones or extension system!

Can anyone offer any assistance, please?

[greghodgson400]

https://youtu.be/Id_KGXMcJHk  

How to Connect Landline Phones / Extensions to VOIP on Fibre Internet

[JimS28]

To all thoses who have participated - Thank You.  With a big shout out to rgbargey (next dooor) for all his support and assistance.

I am now back on my internal 'wired' exstension system and it is just about spot on.  2 of the 3 phones ring clearly and the 3rd is a little quiet - but it might be the one at the end of the wiring (maybe a reason?).

I can make and receive calls, its like a rebor invention.

Although I think the pain, frustration (and suffering) I have gone through, will stay with me for a while.

That said, I do hope that this issue may prove to be helpful for others in the future.  But you can rest assured I am not wanting to bring any form of suffering down upon them - honetsy.

One good outcome though, would be if TT learnt anything from this - but I doubt it.

That said, if they were interested, in the whole episode, not just 'getting the phones working again', I would be more than happy to take some time out to talk with them.

Thanks again to eveyone for their help and support.

All the Best.

[Gondola]

Understandable.

[rgbargey]

Yes agree. Thanks for your input. We will probably change one of the analogue phones to a DECT phone, which hopefully should reduce the loading on the HUB2's VOIP port. Just using DECT phones all round is probably the best and easiest solution for most people, but in my neighbours house there is no mains power where one of the phones is positioned, hence his desire to keep using the existing extension system.

[Gondola]

OK so in your friend's case the BT phones with a nominal REN of 3 present a loading exceeding the limit of what the Hub 2 is designed for i.e. it should work with a ringer load of 3 but clearly the loading is just over the top for the Hub that's not quite making all the ringers work as expected.

[rgbargey]

He has 3 BT phones each marked REN 1. If 2 are connected they both ring OK. If all 3 are connected, 2 ring weakly and one doesn't ring at all. But all work on voice and can dial out.

[rgbargey]

Going next door to check!

[Gondola]

TalkTalk supply the Hub 2 because it doesn't need a Grandstream adaptor. You didn't say what the sum of the REN numbers were of your phones to see whether it exceeds a REN of 3. NB Some phones exceed a REN of 1 so you can't just say 3 phones = 3 REN.

[ferguson]

Ah OK, fair enough.  🙂

[rgbargey]

Thanks for the above very useful comments. My posts have some relevance to the original query as I am neighbour also with TT and we think the best solution for the originator may be to use a Grandstream adapter connected to the original extension system powering 3 analogue phones in their original positions. The HUB2 is able to power 2 phones (2REN) but not 3. So using a Grandstream may let him use 3 phones.

[ferguson]

@rgbargey This discussion has moved away from the OP's initial question somewhat, if you want to pursue this train of thought you may do better to start your own topic. 

[rgbargey]

Looking at the spec of the Grandstream HT801 (if that is what TT supply for the EERO router) it is REN 5, so I guess it should be able to power up to 5 standard ringers, and therefore be useful to those who want to keep their existing wired extensions and use analogue phones.  But is it compatible with a Hub2 or not. Anyone know?

[Gondola]

To use existing extension socket wiring is not that difficult. The essential part is to make sure the external telephone line is totally disconnected and all home phones are removed from the sockets.

Then source a phone lead that has BT phone plugs at both ends. Plug one end into any existing BT phone socket and the other into the Hub 2 VOIP green phone port.

Inspect the phone labels to see what the REN number is. It'll usually be up to 1 for each phone. For example, my standard corded 'phone has a REN of 0.9. The maximum REN or sum of all individual 'phone REN is 4 for a BT analogue line. So you may have 4 or maybe 5 individual handsets per connection assuming the line was in good condition. You'll not necessarily be able to use 4 or 5 handsets with a VOIP connection.

However, it's my recommendation to de-rate the REN number to a maximum of 3 for VOIP connections via the Wi-Fi Hub2. This is to ensure the router's power supply isn't overloaded when ringing the connected handsets. So make sure the sum of the REN numbers shown on the 'phone handset labels does not exceed 3 when you plug them (or selected ones) into the phone sockets.

Interesting that you've found that it may be necessary to de-rate further. What's the sum of the REN numbers in your setup?

[rgbargey]

The VOIP port on the HUB2 struggles to power 2 or more ringers on an analogue phone extension system, and strangely needs a VDSL filter fitted for the analogue phones to ring (but doesn't need the filter for a DECT phone setup). Does anyone know if the Grandstream Analog Telephone Adapter would work with a TT Hub2 and give sufficient ringer power for 2 or 3 old analogue phones?

[Softy]

Not joking, just showing that it is possible to retain the extension wiring when using VOIP.  I agree the average user may not be capable or want to do it themselves but it is dead simple for a telecoms technician at what should be a reasonable cost.  The only alternative is DECT which will still cost if the user does not already have the equipment.

[ferguson]

Wow, what a really simple solution, not!  @Softy For the average user, you must be joking?

[Softy]

You should  also be able to connect the router or VOIP adapter phone port so as to back feed into your extension wiring.  Just make sure the external Openreach line is totally disconnected.

See How to Connect Landline Phones / Extensions to VOIP on Fibre Internet - YouTube

[ferguson]

You don't need an adapter, the Hub 2 has one built in, there is a phone port on the back initially covered by a sticker. Just connect your handset there and you should be good to go. 

[JimS28]

All.

Out of interest, what is a Grand Stream adaptor?

Do I need one for the Hub2 Router?

Do I just connect a telephone into the Hub2 Router phone port?

Do I need to connect a 'filter' to the Hub2 Router and then the phone to the filter (like old copper landline system)? 

[Gondola]

Openreach will continue to declare more stop sell dates for analogue voice service exchange by exchange. Stop sell for analogue voice will apply nationally from September this year. Retiring the copper network

Which is why the provision of TalkTalk Digital Voice will also apply nationally from September or before for new and renewing customers. NB Stop sell is not the same as withdrawal of a service that, in the case of analogue voice service, is planned for 2025.