Regular high pings 4 times a day

[JamKart]

Hi

I play online racing games and for at least two years I've been experiencing high pings during a race with bad consequences as the car bounces around and ruins the race.

It's only recently that I noticed the pinging happens at the same time in a race. It actually starts at 20:26:47 and lasts four seconds. A friend wrote me a UCP pinging utility that allowed me to log the results over a 24hr period (log file attached). This identified four periods in the day where this high burst of ping occurred...

20:26:47

02:26:47

08:26:47

14:26:47

i.e. at exactly six hour intervals.

Note, before the clocks went back the error occured at 21:26:47

I initially thought it was the online racing server at fault but the high ping occurs if I ping google.co.uk.

The tracert to google.co.uk is...

Tracing route to google.co.uk [142.250.200.35]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ttrouter.lan [192.168.1.1]
2 7 ms 5 ms 55 ms host-2-97-96-1.as13285.net [2.97.96.1]
3 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms ae52-ner002.nec.as13285.net [78.144.1.11]
4 27 ms 10 ms 10 ms ae52-scr101.loh.as13285.net [78.144.1.10]
5 51 ms 12 ms 63 ms host-78-144-4-33.as13285.net [78.144.4.33]
6 50 ms 12 ms 11 ms 216.239.54.127
7 27 ms 11 ms 10 ms 142.251.52.145
8 13 ms 11 ms 11 ms lhr48s30-in-f3.1e100.net [142.250.200.35]

Trace complete.

I setup multiple pings to all these hops and, apart from the router hop, all have the high ping.

I've reproduced the error on a different PC, disconnected all other internet devices in the house and rebooted the router for 30 mins - all make no difference.

I've checked logs in the router but nothing happens at the critical time.

My thought is it's an error in the router or something is going on at 

host-2-97-96-1.as13285.net [2.97.96.1]

My router is a TalkTalk WiFi Hub with 174 firmware installed.

Can you do any tests to establish what's happening please

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Hi @JamKart 

I have asked our faults escalation team to make contact with you after 21st November.

Thanks

Debbie

[JamKart]

Yes please.

After 21st Nov

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Hi JamKart

Would you like me to pass this over to our faults escalation team and arrange for one of my colleagues to contact you to discuss further?

Thanks

Debbie

[JamKart]

I'm curious to know if this is a wide spread bug in the TalkTalk WiFi hub or it's perculiar to me.

What I did to find it...

The ping program is here...

https://grid.racedepartment.com/colin/udp-ping.exe

Open a cmd window run the udp-ping program and pipe the output into a log file

Udp-ping > log.txt

And run it for 24hr.

I then used a regex search in notepad++ and searched for 4 character numbers (I.e. over sec) .

The search string is 

[\d]{4} ms

You should see four bursts with a 6 hour difference 

[JamKart]

It will happen tonight and every night at 20:53:16 for five seconds.

Also...

08:53:16

14:53.16

O2:53:16

I've tried a different make of router and no error so I'd be surprised if you see anything on the line. But let's see...

[Chris-TalkTalk]

I've checked line history for yesterday, errored seconds are very low every hour and the the only unavailable seconds are 97 at around 4pm. Checked the router history too but can't really see anything there either.

Could you let us know when you experience the issue next and I'll check again

Chris

[KeithFrench]

That is fair enough.

[JamKart]

Hi 

I initially did ICMP ping tests to identify the problem. You could see four seconds of high (300+) ping at the problem time.

High pings happen throughout the day so it was difficult to see a pattern. The UPD problgram was written for me to see what the impact was with this type of data.

A 24hr log of results enabled me to see that there were four distinct times in the day, 6hr apart that had disrupted pings for the application I was running.

It's hard to identify when the error will initially appear as I've had different times with the two TalkTalk modems - 8:26 and 8:53.

So the UDP program was useful to identify the start time with a particular modem as it will show 4 burst of 5 seconds, 6hrs apart.

It's easier to search a log file for a 1000+ms delay rather than the hundreds of shorter 100+ pings.

So to reproduce the problem someone needs to run the udp-ping program for 24hr to identify the problem times in that particular TalkTalk WiFi hub. 

I'll ask the person who wrote it if he's happy for me to share it

[KeithFrench]

Hi @JamKart 

Did you see my post the other day about the tool that you are using, if it can allegedly perform a UDP PING, there is no such test. It is the industry standard ICMP PING that you need to use.

[JamKart]

It was fine last night at 20:53 but that was only because I rebooted the router beforehand.

As expected the error has reappeared again this morning...

2024-11-13T08:53:13Z | Received: 1979 | RTT: 18 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:14Z | Received: 1980 | RTT: 41 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:15Z | Received: 1981 | RTT: 61 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:16Z | Received: 1982 | RTT: 17 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:22Z | Received: 1983 | RTT: 4804 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:22Z | Received: 1984 | RTT: 3802 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:22Z | Received: 1985 | RTT: 2801 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:22Z | Received: 1986 | RTT: 1801 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:22Z | Received: 1987 | RTT: 800 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:22Z | Received: 1988 | RTT: 16 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:23Z | Received: 1989 | RTT: 40 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:24Z | Received: 1990 | RTT: 62 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:25Z | Received: 1991 | RTT: 12 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:26Z | Received: 1992 | RTT: 19 ms
2024-11-13T08:53:27Z | Received: 1993 | RTT: 29 ms

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

How are you getting on? Did this happen again last night? If it did then I'll ask our Devices Team to take a look for you.

Thanks

Michelle

[JamKart]

Over the past few days I've tried a different make of router and replaced the TalkTalk WiFi Hub with the replacement you sent me.

The different make of router showed no errors over a 24hr period but the original and new TalkTalk router showed the same issue at six hour intervals. The only difference in the two TalkTalk routers was that the problem time move about 30mins.

I need to reboot it again today as I need a reliable connection tonight and the only way I can achieve that is a reboot. This has the odd side effect of not going wrong in the next scheduled error - 20:53 but the errors will start up again after that at 02:53, 08:53, 14:53 and 20:53.

All very strange.

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi JamKart,

Line test is passing but showing disconnection, have you rebooted the router over the last few days?

Chris

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Michelle-TalkTalk 

I am not sure about these UDP pings, as that is not a true PING. PING works at layer 3 or the network layer, whereas UDP (or TCP) is a layer 4 protocol. UDP also works on the principle of - "I'll send a packet & I don't care if it gets there at all". UDP is connectionless, relying on upper layer protocols to handle any delays or retransmissions etc.

I have just tried a proper PING and it was fine, OK it was only for a few seconds:-

C:\Users\XXXXXXX>ping avon.racedepartment.com -t

Pinging avon.racedepartment.com [31.204.152.159] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=121
Reply from 31.204.152.159: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=121

Ping statistics for 31.204.152.159:
Packets: Sent = 23, Received = 23, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 22ms, Average = 15ms

I can't say that there is not a bug in the router, I have no way of replicating it though, as I do not play games. However, I do not think the test that the customer's UDP Ping test is valid.

Perhaps ask the TT Devices team?

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

Thanks for testing again. As it doesn't happen when using a 3rd party router then this would rule out any possible network issues as I'd expect to see the same on all routers if this was the case. @KeithFrench do you have any further ideas or have come across this before?

Thanks

Michelle

[JamKart]

Hi

No difference with the new firmware. The time has moved from 08:26:35 to 08:53:17 - and then every six hours...

2024-11-12T08:53:14Z | Received: 83544 | RTT: 2 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:15Z | Received: 83545 | RTT: 20 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:16Z | Received: 83546 | RTT: 37 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:17Z | Received: 83547 | RTT: 63 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:23Z | Received: 83548 | RTT: 4784 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:23Z | Received: 83549 | RTT: 3798 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:23Z | Received: 83550 | RTT: 2802 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:23Z | Received: 83551 | RTT: 1802 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:23Z | Received: 83552 | RTT: 803 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:23Z | Received: 83553 | RTT: 22 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:24Z | Received: 83554 | RTT: 18 ms
2024-11-12T08:53:25Z | Received: 83555 | RTT: 4

Any other suggestions?

Regards

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Hi @JamKart 

Thank you 🙂

Debbie

[JamKart]

Hi

I see I now have SG4K100206 installed. I'll run the tests for 24hr and let you know

Thanks

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Hi @JamKart 

I've updated your firmware to the latest version. Please can you retest?

[JamKart]

Hi

New router arrived and I setup the logging to see if the problem was fixed. Unfortunately it was still the same but this time the error moved from 08:26:44 to 08:24:35...

2024-11-08T08:24:31Z | Received: 1340 | RTT: 16 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:33Z | Received: 1341 | RTT: 16 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:33Z | Received: 1342 | RTT: 16 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:35Z | Received: 1343 | RTT: 18 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:40Z | Received: 1344 | RTT: 4840 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:40Z | Received: 1345 | RTT: 3840 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:40Z | Received: 1346 | RTT: 2841 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:40Z | Received: 1347 | RTT: 1840 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:40Z | Received: 1348 | RTT: 841 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:41Z | Received: 1349 | RTT: 1 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:42Z | Received: 1350 | RTT: 1 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:43Z | Received: 1351 | RTT: 17 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:44Z | Received: 1352 | RTT: 18 ms
2024-11-08T08:24:45Z | Received: 1353 | RTT: 4 ms

I managed to borrow a different router (a technicolor dga0122nlk), monitored the UDP for 24hr and no errors.  So I've concluded you have a bug in the firmware somewhere.

You recommend always using a TalkTalk modem so I'm reluctant to buy something else. How do we get this bug to the attention of the development team so that it can be fixed in a subsequent firmware update? 

Regards