City Fibre - Full Fibre Upgrade

[GORDON92]

Hello,

This is a follow up question to my last (and only other post which was dated 17-10-2023) - If you can help me with this issue, please read my previous post to understand the background. In my previous post talktalk was going to upgrade my service to from my current package of Fibre65 to Full Fibre, however because I also have a landline with two analogue telephones connected to it (one at the master socket in my living room and a second at an internally wired copper extension outlet in my bedroom) talktalk cancelled this upgrade the night before the installation upgrade was due to take place - that was in the past but all still relavent to my current issue.

In December talktalk emailed me again saying this upgrade could again go ahead, and I set the upgrade date for the 4th of March. Today I received a telephone call from a person in talktalk named Albert - he said he need to confirm my upgrade date and confrim that I would be home to allow the engineers access and that I was happy to proceed with the upgrade. I explained to Albert about the last attempt to carry out this upgrade and the fact that I had two analogue telephones connected to my landline, which I wished to continue using after the upgrade. I also explained about your Grandstream - Digital Voice Adapter & and about speaking to your technical Department on the previous occasion to confirm that it would work with my two analogue telephones. I asked him if city fibre would be providing the new router and digital voice adapter when they carried out this upgrade. When he looked at the order he told me it was for a router only and there was no mention of a digital voice adapter. He said he would have to get talktalk customer services to call me back about this order and our call ended. So I am now waiting on talktalk customer services calling me back to find out whats going on - this is the reason for this post - to ask if there is anyone here who can provide assistance, because I can see this going the same way as when talktalk tried to carry out this same upgrade back in October last year, i.e. it being cancelled at the last minute, and by the phone call I just received from Albert - it does not give me any confidence that it is going correctly at present.

P.S. From reading previous posts on the forum - I'm already dubious if CityFibre (Aberdeen) - offer Digital Voice services to allow me to carry on using my landline analogue telephones.

Thankyou - in the hope someone can actually sort this out.

Regards

Gordon Walker

[aa2000]

Hi @Chris-TalkTalk 

Zen have confirmed to me that they *can* provide VOIP via CityFibre in Aberdeen where @GORDON92 is based.  I believe the same is true for Vodafone.    Why then can't TalkTalk also do so via CityFibre in that city?  

[GORDON92]

Hi aa2000,

Thanks for the message - Yes I had read other people on here saying similar things about city fibre not providing "Digital Voice" services, hence my thread, but I must say Chris has been more than helpful, unlike talktalks telephone division, who appear to be lacking the knowledge in the products & services they are providing and are also not really bothered, I got the impression from them that because it is a telephone call - it is unrecorded (althought they say they record them for training purposes), they will be no proof of the telephone conversation down the line - so they dont have to bother what they say or promise, also because once the telephone conversation finishes theres no way of getting back in touch with the same person to follow up on what they promised if it does not happen!!!!, this also encourages them to be negelgent. Whereas on this forum (which is the main reason I joined it) - everything is down here in black and white for everyone to read- which is a very good thing - talktalk should get their telephone departments operating more like this forum, with reliable people like Chris following things through until it is resolved, cant thank him enough for his help.

I feel sorry for older people who rely on landline telephones if talktalk treat them like this - i.e. tell them they are providing an upgrade to fibre - they agree, get it done, and they only afterwards realise they're left without a telephone, if they dont have a mobile telephone and a lot of OAP's don't - theyve no chance of getting this rectified - talktalk with this approach could be leaving a lot of old people in an exteremely vunerable position. Sounds like this is exactly what happened to your sister - thankfully in that case you were ther to provide support and fix it.

All the best

Gordon

[aa2000]

Hi @GORDON92 

I believe that in Aberdeen that CityFibre offer a wider range of ISP's eg. Vodafone and Zen?  My understanding is that those two ISP's *are* able to offer VOIP in Aberdeen via CityFibre?  If that's the case, why I wonder can't TalkTalk?  

[GORDON92]

Hi Chris,

Thanks again for your help in getting this cancelled, hopefully at some point in the future talktalk will be able to supply both, & at that point Ill agree to the upgrade (although as the other poster has just said this might never happen, plenty companies promise things but they never come to fruition).

I would have thought talktalk - if relying on Cityfibre as a newtork provider to distrubute talktalk services would have been asking/pushing Cityfibre as to why Digital voice service is not available - surely this is reducing the market availability of the services talktalk can provide & your customer base - not a good point for talktalks business. More to the point I'm amazed by Aberdeen city council planners actually allowing/agreeing to a company such as CityFibre to replace the enitre network in the city from copper to fibre and NOT cover such services - more people in power not having a clue what they are signing off on - its ridiculous.

[aa2000]

Thanks Chris.   Just to add that VOIP is still not available via TalkTalk/CityFibre in Chester and interestingly, TalkTalk are the only ISP available on their service. 

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi aa2000,

I'm sorry to hear about the issue with your sisters service. We can generally now provide VoIP but it has to be available from the network provider in that area

Chris

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi Gordon,

Our provisioning team have confirmed the your Full Fibre has now been cancelled.

Chris

[aa2000]

Just over a year ago my sister in Chester went through a similar, but far more painful rigmorole.   Free Fibre upgrade offered via CityFibre and everyone we spoke to at TalkTalk (including numerous different Tech Support peeps) assured us that Digital Voice / VOIP was part of the deal.  

We only discovered on installation day after the actual Fibre installation, when we enquired from TalkTalk why the digital voice service didn't work , that it was not available.  Worse still, without warning they switched off the copper landline and almost lost my sister's treasured phone number.  Thankfully they were, after approx two weeks able to reinstate both the landline, FTTC broadband and phone number.   The stress and anguish the whole saga caused though was immense.  I'm amazed that a year later they're still unable to provide this service. 

[Chris-TalkTalk]

OK Gordon, I'll ask our provisioning team to cancel the Full Fibre order, I'll let you know when it's done

Chris

[GORDON92]

Hi Chris,

Thankyou for your reply, I have read the article you provided via the link in your message, I note it says:-

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"Good news for TalkTalk customers! this is not the case as we use our own solution and equipment. You will not be immediately impacted; you will continue to be able to order traditional phone services and you will be able to continue to use your current copper (analogue) voice service beyond December 2025."

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Regarding this upgrade - I would prefer to have both my landline upgraded to "Digital voice" & my "Broadband", as you say the network provider talktalk use (City Fibre) in the Aberdeen area appear not to offer the "digital voice" service on their network, hence also preventing Talktalk from offering it. I do not wish to have two different types of services to my property i.e. copper wire PSTN landline & fibre optic Broadband. Thus if talktalk cannot upgrade both services I would prefer to stick with my current service where both my broadband and landline are supplied via the copper wire PSTN network. (I have no problems or issues with my current braodband speeds), I am happy to wait until talktalk can offer me a solution to provide both services via a fibre network, as you said "This wouldn't stop you moving to digital voice in future if required.", thus in the future when this "digital voice" service is available, I will be happy to upgrade both services at that time (this is what talktalk had lead me to beleive was actually happening on the 4th March anyway, but after our messages obviously isn't, I'm not to happy about this & I now feel talktalk have been a little underhanded about this - but at least now you have clarified the situation)

Chris - you yourself have been a great help & I appreciate all you have done (Its a pity some of your telephone operator teams weren't more like and as knowledgeable as yourself).

Thus - yes please arrange to have this upgrade cancelled - on the basis it is not what talktalk originally told me what it would be, i.e. talktalk originally told me they were providing one thing (Broadband & Digital Voice - Landline) and then tried to change it to something else (and as far as I can see hoping I wouldn't realise until the engineers had physically made the change). I will be happy for an upgrade to what talktalk originally promised (and to which I originally agreed) at somepoint in the future if talktalk can ever offer one, on the assumption that according to the link you provided talktalk can continue to provide both my Broadband & Landline via the copper network until the fibre digital voice & broadband system referenced is available.

All the best & thanks again for your support

Regards

Gordon

P.S. Can you drop me a message to let me know/confirm that it has been cancelled.  

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi Gordon

Whether we can or can't provide the digital voice service in you area depends on the network provider not ourselves. So it would seem that City Fibre aren't currently providing digital voice in your area, this is why the order has been placed for Full Fibre with copper leave behind. (The Grandstream DVA will only work if the VoIP service is enable on the circuit)

This wouldn't stop you moving to digital voice in future if required. Please also see this help article - Copper Telephone Network Switch Off - What does i... - TalkTalk Help & Support

I also don't think moving to a new provider would help. 

If you'd like me to have the order for full fibre cancelled please let me know and I'll ask our provisioning team to do this

Chris

[GORDON92]

Hi Chris,

I appreciate your time and support in assisting with this issue, BUT this does not seem like a long term resolution. I am aware that openreach are ending the copper PSTN system either this year or next. This is the primary reason the fibre networks are being rolled out.

IF I renew my talktalk contract for another 24months (I've been with talktalk for the last 27years, but this year its looking like talktalk might force me to switch provider because of this exact issue, i.e. unable to provide/keep my landline telephone). what will happen when openreach eventually end/pull the copper network? How will talktalk provide my Landline, I suspect at that point I'll just be told "tuff luck" - If I agree to go down this line/route of curently retaining my copper line for my existing landline telephone.

Why are talktalk not also upgrading me to "Digital Voice" service using your "Grandstream" DVA, as they previously advised during the first attempt to provide this upgrade?, I have read its operating manual as provided by talktalks tech team when they originally explained to me how it worked, just prior to the first upgrade attempt. This works, unfortunately the talktalk team who control the upgrade orders dont understand how the equipment works (unlike the tech team) and because I said I had two analogue telephones connected to my landline - that statement cancelled the first upgrade. The grandstream device can suppost additional analogue telephones in the manner I shown in the referenced You tube video, but still the upgrade was cancelled.

If they cannot provide the full upgrade I might as well stay with my existing setup, Im not willing to have half & half of a system (one of which would be purely temporary, not knowing when the service would be withdrawn) & how it would be supported in the future (I suspect at that point I would be simply informed - it simply isnt supported or available - just left without) .

I understand this is not your doing or responsibility & I really appreciate the help you have provided. (Still no return phone call from customer services - following Alberts phone call yesterday - I got the impression he wasn't too bothered - basically - "I'm just here to check & confirm your upgrade date - if it doesnt work of not what you expected - you'll just have to tell City Fibre they're not getting to install it" - which wasnt very inspiring - when he said these phone calls are recorded for training purposes, I said that is good - if you can you should listen to that recording), I was hoping for a little more proactive approach, but as I said I'm still waiting on the customer service phone call (I doubt I'll get a call, because I doubt he processed it), hence this is the reason I started this thread/post - i.e. hopefully to get this resolved - before the city fibre installation date of the 4th March.

I'm still not happy with this situation - can you please ask and answer why talktalk are not providing a "Digital Voice" Service upgrade. If they can't provide it - please arrange to canel this upgrade - there is no point to it. My contract is due for renewal on the 23rd March (I think) and as I previously said I have been with Talktalk for around 27years (becuase they generally provided the best value for money), however if they are unable to provide continued support for my Landline they will force me (unfortunately - not my preference) to move to another proivder who can.

I am hoping you might be able to provide me with some better news.

Regards

Gordon

P.S. Sorry about the email attachment, I only realised it contained my email address as soon as I posted it - thanks for removing it.

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi Gordon,

I've received an update from our provisioning team. The order is for Full Fibre with copper leave behind. This means that City fibre will provide your Full fibre broadband service but you will continue to receive the voice (telephone) service on your existing copper line.

Chris

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi Gordon

I've asked our provisioning team to take a look at this, I'll let you know when I receive an update

Chris

[Chris-TalkTalk]

OK thanks Gordon, let me take a look at it and I'll get back to you. I've removed the PDF as it contained your email address

Chris

[GORDON92]

Hi Chris,

This is what I have been dreading (but half expecting from talktalk) - The original upgrade back in october was to include my Landline (via digital voice), but this was canceled - I was informed it would be fixed at a future date - On the 14th Nov, I received an email from Talktalk with a new upgrade date, which I rescheduled until the 4th March, please see the attached PDF copy of the email - stating I would still be able to use my telephone.

Regards

Gordon

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Could I just ask, have you been told at any point that the service includes VoIP because I've checked the order again on the City Fibre website and it appears to be data only?

Chris

[GORDON92]

P.S. Sorry I meant to say:-

1) According to Albert - the DVA is NOT currently listed as part of the upgrade order - I informed him I wouldnt allow the upgrade if it doesn't - which is why he said customer services would have to call me back and correct this.

[GORDON92]

Hello Chris,

According to Albert (the talktalk person who orginally called me to confirm the upgrade) - he said the DVA was not on the upgrade order, he said customer services would have to look into this and he would get then to call me back (in the mean time I started this post. But I do wish to keep my landline & number, & in order to do this I beleive I need talktalks "Digital Voice Service" using thier Grandstream "Digital Voice Adapter(DVA)" this was clarified by talktalks technical department when I spoke to them back in October  - just before some non-technical person in talktalk who didn't understand how the equipment work - cancelled the upgrade the night before it was due.

To clarify - post you do not need DECT telephones, old analogue telephones work just fine with the Grandstream device (This is exactly what this device is for i.e. converting an analogue telephone to a digital signal), The grandstrem device is available in either 1 or 2 connection ports dependant on the particular model supplied.

In my previous post I sent this reply to someone called Ferguson (it was post 9 of 16):

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Hello again Ferguson,

I'm not sure if your allowed to post YouTube links, so instead I'll say one of the YouTube videos I watched was titled:-

"How to Connect Landline Phones / Extensions to VOIP on Fibre Internet" by someone called "My Mate VINCE", a quick Google search should locate this YouTube video and what he is doing in this video is what I am suggesting the talktalk/cityfibre engineer could do with the Grandstream HT801 device.

Again Regards Gordon

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This is how I intend to connect my two existing analogue telephones onto the single port on the grandstream DVA that talktalk provides (again this doen not require the use of DECT telephones - but I accept using them does make it simpler to use multiple telephones)

Anway back to the issue:

1) According to Albert - the DVA is currently listed as part of the upgrade order - I informed him I wouldnt allow the upgrade if it doesn't - which is why he said customer services would have to call me back and correct this.

2) I doubt City Fibre (Aberdeen) - offer Digital Voice (VOIP) services - this is something I beleive talktalk are trying to hide - hoping customers will get the upgrade done - only later to realise they have been left without a landline phone number. So can you also please confirm if this service will be available as part of this upgrade - as I mentioned previously reading other posts a few poeple have had the city fibre upgrade only to then realise they can have a Digital Voice Service and in effect lost their landline telephone number.

Your assistance is appreciated.

Thanks

Regards

Gordon

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi Gordon,

There's no indication that the order is going to be cancelled. It's my understanding that the telephone would need to be connected to the DVA and to use multiple telephones you would need a cordless base unit with multiple handsets. 

Chris