Being threatened with a £2.75 per month charge because you "can't reach me by email"

[jamieburchell]

Received a stuffy letter from TT today to say that they are going to start charging me £2.75 per month unless I "fix my email".

Well, I have an inbox full of emails from TalkTalk (and every other service I use) which say otherwise. I also get the bills that they send (which I delete, because if I want to see my bill I can login to my account).

Where do we go from here, because I'm not paying for paper bills?

[Gondola]

I'm asking others what their email domain is to see if there's a common issue.

Yours is a personal domain but you're using forwarding. I don't know if the forwarding service you're using does use the SRS Sender Rewriting Scheme because their FAQ appear to suggest they don't but they do check for SRS incoming. If no outgoing SRS is used then GMail is highly likely to send a bounceback error because the TalkTalk SPF file will not authenticate the forwarder as permitted by the TalkTalk billing system.

In your case I would have the TalkTalk billing sent directly to Gmail. i.e. change the MyAccount login to the final destination email address and not have it going through forwarders. Who knows where the bounceback originated from or why - your personal domain / the forwarder / Gmail? . It's going to go back to the TalkTalk billing system to the Return-Path address.

[jamieburchell]

I appreciate your help @Gondola and for the workaround. I apologise for sounding brash, I'm just frustrated because there's nothing to indicate an issue on my side, no tangible logs or detail from your side, nothing has changed, and to receive a letter saying fix it or we'll charge you is annoying at the best of times and insensitive during a cost of living crisis. Even more frustrating that I'm actually receiving them anyway. I agree with the sentiment from others who have started to post- why do I need to appease you with a workaround.

[Gondola]

Hi typoid 

What's the email domain - the bit after the @ symbol in the email address that was used as your MyAccount login when you got the notification about going to paper billing? And was this the first notification of delivery issues or the second?

[typoid]

Thanks for the workaround.

If I receive the TT emails how can it be a delivery failure? Sounds like the rebound is too sensitive or needs a delay.

I receive all mails from all my services. 

Setting up a non TT address with all the following hassle is not what I need right now considering my mental state.

Why should I need a workaround?

Thanks anyway 

[typoid]

Thanks for the workaround.

However, how can it be a delivery failure if I am receiving the emails? The bounceback seems too sensitive.

Plus i receive mail from every other service. 

Right now to setup another non TT address and it's frustrations is beyond me with my mental state.

Thanks anyway

[Winston196328]

Same here despite having emails received into my inbox, not impressed . 😣

[Gondola]

Your mail service has sent a bounceback delivery fail. So what if it is a soft fail for a deferred delivery. What if your mail server decides to silently drop delivery? The billing system notifies of a potential issue in Month 1. But if there's another bounceback in Month 2 then you get reverted to paper billing.

I've given everyone posting on this thread the fix to change the email address at least for one billing cycle to avoid being put on paper billing. Anyone choosing to ignore that advice is welcome to paper billing but can opt back to email notifications on changing the email address as TalkTalk would have put a stop on sending to the bounceback email address after the second bounceback.

Nothing else I can add.

[Gliwmaeden2]

Best to start your own thread for this, @iani2112.

Staff only reply to the original poster. 

They will be back during the week. 

[iani2112]

Also received a letter telling me that e mails about bills not getting delivered. E Mail account is active and no problems receiving other e mails.

[jamieburchell]

Why can't the sending mail server differentiate between soft and hard bounces? When relaying mail through Mailgun for example, the logs can show soft bounces and hard bounces with soft bounces being retried until giving up. Are you saying that soft bounces trigger a letter? It seems like a flawed system to send customers a letter unless you're absolutely sure there's a long term problem.

I'm using my own domain with MX records pointing at the forwardemail.net service to a Gmail address that I don't give out (so I can switch service).

[Gondola]

In that case you know full well that it's possible that the billing system mail sender got a bounceback delivery error message but in fact the delivery was deferred or delayed. The billing system doesn't know if the mail eventually got through to your mailbox because there will have been no 'successful delivery' bounceback after deferral for scanning. The billing system mail sender does do the normal retries after soft fails but these will time out.

As you are an expert in email you know exactly what's going on. I've told you the workaround. Just out of interest, in case there's a common email recipient system what's the mail service you're using? e.g. Gmail, Yahoo Mail, BT Mail or another?

[jamieburchell]

I don't know how TT classifies a delivery failure when I get the email, but I do know that in my line of work I deal with mail systems (postfix, relaying, Mailgun, SendGrid, DKIM, SPF, DMARC et al) and soft failures are retried several times before giving up with a hard bounce. It can't be a hard bounce if I'm actually receiving the email.

[Gondola]

There are over 4 million eBill notifications going out each month. The system runs on the basis that almost all notifications get delivered without a problem.

But if the billing system is notified of a delivery failure that's when the backup paper notification comes into play. We may see a few reports each month. If there was a major issue we'd be well aware because of the potential 4 million individuals impacted.

[jamieburchell]

Is it not a little strange that 3 people have recently appeared in the forum highlighting this very issue? Unless of course the sending of the letter is a new thing.

[Gondola]

When the eBill notification doesn’t reach you (bounces) TalkTalk will advise you of this, to ensure that future eBill notifications reach you successfully. It's not the TalkTalk system that needs configuring. Your current email address wasn't able to take delivery at the time of sending a notification email.

The notifications of email delivery failure don't get sent on a whim. They're sent to notify you of a problem.

I'm just trying to tell you how to work around that problem.

[jamieburchell]

I'm not creating another email address/login just because TalkTalk can't work out how to configure their email systems. I'm already getting the TalkTalk billing notification emails and all the other TalkTalk emails. Literally the only service that's apparently got an issue emailing me.

[Gondola]

Whatever your TalkTalk MyAccount login is currently it's that address that has bounced back a delivery status notification to the TalkTalk billing system indicating a problem with delivery. So just change that MyAccount login to another email address to avoid being put on to paper billing.

It's mandatory that you have a notification of a bill being produced. It's not optional.

[jamieburchell]

@Gondola I never said it was a TalkTalk email address (it isn't).

Seems like a TalkTalk problem, especially since two other people have just posted with this issue. And I do get the billing emails anyway!

Heads up, if I'm charged for paper bills I'll be leaving TalkTalk. I don't even want to receive the email.

[Gondola]

The eBill Notification does have a brief summary including the amount due. But there are no itemised details or how the bill is calculated as that's only on the bill that's viewable in your customer MyAccount.

It's possible in your case that the billing system mail sender got a bounceback delivery error message but in fact the delivery was deferred or delayed.

If the billing system has notified you that your account is being reverted to paper billing then simply follow the advice I gave earlier.

[typoid]

Thanks for reply. My talktalk email has Account number. Amount due in pounds and payment due date.

It seems have regular bills monthly.

How do I correct this. I'm not sure what to do next 😞