PSTN Switch Off and Digital Voice

[jerryf]

Currently have Fibre 65 delivered as FTTC then copper to the property.

I understand that BT/OpenReach are currently updating copper circuits both above/below ground to fibre in preparation for switching off the copper PSTN network by 2025.

As my contract for voice is with TalkTalk who will do what and when as part of the switchover?

[Arne-TalkTalk]

Correct the current FTTC service including voice will continue.  

[Gliwmaeden2]

You should be able to renew your contract this year with the same package, @jerryf.

The service should continue as is  until offered the upgrade to Full Fibre by TT as and when it becomes available in your area.

[jerryf]

Hi Arne

Thanks for your reply and apologies for being pedantic but terminology in this area can be confusing.

I understand that Openreach's copper based networks will continue to operate for some time after PSTN shutdown.  So just to be clear and separate the copper FTTC network infrastructure to my property from the the TT services delivered over it:

Will TT continue to provide me with voice services over my FTTC connection after BT shutdown the PSTN service by December 2025?

Thanks

[Arne-TalkTalk]

HI jerryf

It is an update , basically the December 2025 cut off date for copper will not happen until Full fibre is available in the area, this may be provided by OpenReach, City Fibre or freedom fibre though TalkTalk. 

[jerryf]

Chris

Reference your latest post.

As far as I am aware my Fibre 65 service is provided over Openreach's FTTC network infrastructrure - hence why in the past Openreach engineers have been involved in sorting out connectivity problems.

So as a TT customer I will be reliant on Openreach until either TT provide their own fibre services to my area or I move to toob or Virgin who are the only other full fibre providers locally.

(Openreach has advised that they have no commercial plans at the moment to upgrade the buried FTTC cable network in our road.)

The statement in Simonb's Blog directly contradicts what I was told by TT Customer Services last year that when BT shutdown the PSTN service I would lose my existing analogue voice service and TalkTalk would only provide VOIP to customers on Full Fibre contracts.

I assume that Simonb's Blog is an update to TT's position regarding ongoing provision of voice services to existing customers who have no option to upgrade to a Full Fibre connection and VOIP.

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Well it just really means that we have our own equipment in the exchange so we aren't reliant on Openreach

Chris

[Spees]

Thanks Chris. I have read the article, but what is "TalkTalk's own solution and equipment" ?

[Chris-TalkTalk]

Hi Spees,

Please see the following help article - Copper Telephone Network Switch Off - What does i... - TalkTalk Help & Support

Chris

[Spees]

When Openreach close their PSTN system in 2025 most users will have been changed over to an analogue service with kit in the house to connect to a router. But TalkTalk say that they are making their own different arrangements. Does anyone know what those TalkTalk technical arrangements will be?

[Gondola]

Pleased that the two of us finally ended any potential confusion.

As a Community volunteer / moderator I don't delete topics. I will alert TalkTalk Support to the extent of confusion created for you and hope that feedback to the right places will put an end to that.

Enjoy your weekend.

[jerryf]

Gondola

Thank you for your patience and latest reply which does clarify things, corrects my misinterpretation of responses to my letter and also my mistyping Fibre City instead of CityFibre.

To avoid my posts causing further confusion amongst the wider consumer community I am quite happy for this post trail to be deleted.

If this post trail is removed is it possible to summarise the details of your last post as a top level item somewhere on the Community webpages?

Many thanks for all your help

[Gondola]

Hi jerryf 

This Community has no relationship with TalkTalk Business (TTB). Here on Community we help TalkTalk Consumer customers to a better understanding regarding broadband packages with TalkTalk.

Clearly you've been mis-advised by TalkTalk regarding the impact of the stop-sell date promulgated by Openreach.

A stop-sell is not the same as a withdrawal of service.  Your service will remain in place with TalkTalk until notice of withdrawal* and be able to be renewed regardless of whether a Full Fibre service has been made available by your contract end in a year's time.  If Full Fibre is not available in a year then a renewal of your existing service will be available*. If Full Fibre is available then you'll have a choice of contract renewal* or contract upgrade to Full Fibre.

* When at least 75% of Openreach exchange customers have access to Full Fibre then those customers would be expected to take Full Fibre.

The official statement from Openreach.

---

jerryf wrote:...As TalkTalk do not offer Full Fibre at my location and only toob/Fibre City are installing Full Fibre along the road via new telegraph poles I was left wondering how my existing service would continue when the contract expires in Aug 2024.

If by "Fibre City" you mean CityFibre then TalkTalk does provide Full Fibre packages on the CityFibre network. So that looks promising as that would certainly be available in a year's time.

[jerryf]

I confirm that I am a residential customer - is that causing possible confusion about what happens when?

The letter I sent to TalkTalk used the address on the TalkTalk website and included my nam, telephone number and account number so I had assumed the person responding would be aware I was a residential customer.

The address the letter went to was:

TalkTalk (TTR)
PO Box 675
Salford
M5 0NL

For attension of Customer Services

[Gliwmaeden2]

@jerryf, you have started mentioning the Talktalk Business Team.

Please clarify that you are in fact a residential customer. 

Talktalk Business is separate from the consumer service. 

[jerryf]

Hi Gondola

Thanks for your reply but it leaves me more uncertain rather than clarifying things.

To try and resolve the apparent discrpency between what you have said and the reply I have received from TalkTalk business team here is the background.

I wrote the attached letter to TalkTalk regarding PSTN switchoff/Digital Voice

In response I received the following text in an email from TalkTalk:

(See second attachment for full copy from TalkTalkReply@talktalkplc.com)

Hello Jerry,

Thank you for getting back to me.

Kindly be advised, As mentioned above, if you currently have FTTC or traditional broadband, your internet will not be affected by the switch off, as the copper lines which run from your home will be kept live until you have a new full fibre service, even after the switch off date.

However, there is a stop sell stage which means you will no longer be able to renew your contract to the normal FTTC plans and only Full fibre would be available.

The first para of the response agrees with your own reply.

I interpreted the second para to refer to Openreach's stop sell date of September 2023 and thus mean that when my current FTTC based Fibre 65 contract comes to an end I will have no option but to move to a Full Fibre contract.  This may be a misinterpretation by me.

As TalkTalk do not offer Full Fibre at my location and only toob/Fibre City are installing Full Fibre along the road via new telegraph poles I was left wondering how my existing service would continue when the contract expires in Aug 2024.

So, I am now left wondering what is the correct version of what will happen in the future.  I am not sure if you are part of the TalkTalk business but if you are able to dispel my confusion that would be great.

[Gondola]

The Openreach 5 September 2023 stop sell for landline services does not apply to TalkTalk's network users and FTTC contracts can continue and be renewed as normal until Full Fibre is available. Even then existing TalkTalk contracts can be renewed until Full Fibre is made mandatory at a given exchange. I trust that's clarified what you appear to have been told.

[jerryf]

Some additional info on impact of PSTN switchoff and move to Full Fibre.

By September 2023 Openreach will stop selling copper-based services nationally after which customers will no longer be able to renew their contract for normal (Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC)/Copper to the property) broadband and only Full Fibre will be available, irrespective of who their provider is.

So it seems that anyone with an existing FTTC based contract that expires after September 2023 will have to migrate to a new Full Fibre contract.  Presumably this allows Openreach to gradually retire the local FTTC/copper network as customers transition to Full Fibre.

My own contract expires in Aug 2024 so hopefully TT will have a Full Fibre offering by then for my location, which it does not offer at the moment.

[jerryf]

Here is an update for anyone wondering what happens to their Fibre 65 service delivered over Openreach's PSTN copper network which is planned to be switched off by Dec 2025.

Email responses from Banele Mhlongo (Your TalkTalk team)

Kindly be advised, As mentioned above, if you currently have FTTC or traditional broadband, your internet will not be affected by the switch off, as the copper lines which run from your home will be kept live until you have a new full fibre service, even after the switch off date.

However, there is a stop sell stage which means you will no longer be able to renew your contract to the normal FTTC plans and only Full fibre would be available.

Telecoms companies in the UK are replacing the technology they use to provide fixed telephone networks (landlines). For most customers, the upgrade is expected to be complete by 2025.

At the moment TalkTalk do not offer Full Fibre to my location.  A company called toob (partners with City Fibre) are currently installing telegraph poles along the road to offer Full Fibre 900mbs for new customers.  It is not clear yet if TalkTalk plan to offer their branded broadband services and VOIP using toob infrastructure.  Hopefully things will become clearer in the near future.

[jerryf]

Thanks again for your reply.

All future calls will be VOIP whether over mobile broadband or fixed line broadband and as you already know, line based broadband will require additional equipment and changes to existing PSTN installations.

My concern is what if anything TalkTalk will do when PSTN is switched off.

At the moment TalkTalk do not offer line based broadband in my location and Openreach are not saying anything about what they will do if anything to replace the existing copper PSTN network that currently serves our location.

Hence my query to the Community, but as you said previously it appears to be the case that at the moment we just don't know.

[Gliwmaeden2]

You don't get a landline connection, @jerryf. You can keep the number by using VOIP, the simplest means being to plug in your normal phone at the back of a Hub2 Sagemcom router, as detailed in one of the links I gave you earlier. 

 

So it's all digital. 

You won't know specifics till you order.