Slow Wifi (Fibre 900 Data Only)

[Gryphin]

So, I upgraded about a year ago from 150 to 900. They supplied me with Eero 6+ units—I think two of them—and I also had an older Eero from before. My setup is: the main Eero gateway in the dining room, one hub in the front room, and another upstairs in the bedroom.

On a good day, I’ll get around 450 Mbps download, but most days I’m lucky to see 150 Mbps, and on a bad day it can drop to 10 Mbps. When I run tests on the Eero app, I see full speeds, and I’m guessing I would get that if I were wired in. Unfortunately, since the modem is in the dining room, it’s not possible to run cables around the house.

Any chance I can send Eeros back and get what comes with Full Fibre 900 now, which is Wi-Fi Hub 3 - Wi-Fi 6 & Mesh tech

When I had the old TalkTalk Hub, I actually used to get better speeds, and that was without a mesh network. I’ve noticed that TalkTalk no longer supplies Eero and has switched to the Hub 3 with their own mesh extenders. If I wanted a Hub 3 with one or two mesh extenders, how would I go about that? Would I need to buy an entirely new Wi-Fi setup, and if so, how much would it cost?

[Mandisa-TT]

Hi @Gryphin let us know if you still need assistance with your query.

[KeithFrench]

OK, you have used a WiFi analyser app. Please PM me (to preserve your privacy) the following screenshots from it. When you do so, please try & upload them from a PC ,using the Insert Photos tool from the PM editor's toolbar. Please ensure that the Size parameter of the tool is set to Large. They may be called slightly different names, as I do not know which app you are using:-

1. Access Points – this shows all Wi-Fi bands (2.4, 5 & 6GHz) in one display. Please make sure by scrolling down the display that all of your networks are included in the screenshot. If needs be, get as many screenshots of this display to include them all.
2. Channel graphs– please get one screenshot per band (2.4, 5 & if applicable 6GHz).
3. Time Graphs – please get one screenshot per band (2.4, 5 & if applicable 6GHz).

I will also need these screenshots from the eero app:-

1. Home tab

2. Tap the gateway eero and from there scroll down the page & tap on Radio analytics. Tap on the 2.4GHz label on the top left as well as the 24hr label just below that. This will show the wireless statistics for this band over the last 24 hours. Please make sure that it includes the channel information at the very bottom of the page.

3. Now repeat this for the 5GHz band as well.

4. Where the eero Pro 6 is concerned, in addition to the 2.4GHz band, do the same for both the 5Ghz (low) & 5GHz (high) bands.

5. That covers the Gateway eero. Next please repeat the above for each extender eero if you have any of these.

[Gryphin]

The devices I use Wi-Fi on are mostly Smart TVs that are a few years old and Kids Tablets. The computers in the front room and bedroom are both connected by cable to the Eero hub, which provides better speed and a more stable connection. The computers also have 1-Gbps Ethernet ports. The same goes for the game consoles, which are also connected via wired connections.

I know that going wired to the Eero hub isn’t fully wired, since the hub still connects to the main gateway over Wi-Fi, so there’s going to be some drop in speed. However, getting barely 150 Mbps seems like a big drop. Even when I’m in the same room (the dining room) as the gateway, if I run a Wi-Fi speed test on my Android phone, I only get around 250 Mbps — I’ve never reached 500 Mbps, let alone 900 Mbps.

I would expect around 250 Mbps upstairs or farther away, but being in the same room, I’d expect 600–800 Mbps with Wi-Fi 6. I’ve tried moving the Eero gateway around the dining room to different spots, but it doesn’t improve the signal strength. I’ve also used an app to test for Wi-Fi interference, channel congestion, and dead spots in the house. The only dead spot is in the spare bedroom, which I’m not concerned about.

I don’t know what else to do. Unless I run Ethernet cables around the whole house and go fully wired, I don’t see myself ever getting the Eero to deliver anywhere close to even half the speed I’m paying for. I know I don’t need the full 900 Mbps to get the most out of my internet, but the reason I chose that plan was for the extra bandwidth — because of all the kids’ devices, etc. If I’m only getting around 150 Mbps, and that’s being shared between all the kids’ TVs, tablets, and consoles, it’s no wonder some devices barely get 10 Mbps on some days.

Do you know if I downgrade, will I still get the same speed? For example, I currently pay for 900 Mbps and get around 150 Mbps, which is about 17% of my paid speed. If I downgrade to a 150 Mbps fibre plan, will I still get 17% (around 25 Mbps), or will I actually get the full 150 Mbps?

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Gryphin 

Location recommendations to maximise performance
The gateway mesh, or standalone router, connects directly to the ONT (assuming Full Fibre), but does not have to be located near it. The same goes for any standalone router as well. Longer (Cat 6 minimum) Ethernet cables can be purchased to move this mesh gateway to a better position. Any extender mesh node should be located approximately halfway between the Gateway mode and the dead zone.

These apply to each standalone router or mesh node (Gateway & Extender(s)):-

• Each node must be out in the open, not shut away in a cupboard.
• The location should be reasonably high and most certainly never on the floor.
• Never site any mesh Gateway or Extender nodes near other electronic equipment (TVs, speakers, etc).
• Bluetooth devices (especially speakers) – they operate on the same Wi-Fi frequency (2.4GHz), which can cause signal problems for this band.
• House plants (with tightly packed soil in pots) can absorb or deflect Wi-Fi signals.
• Glass, mirrors or water tanks, etc. Do not expect Wi-Fi signals to pass through such objects.
• Large metal objects - radiators, for instance- will have the same effect on your Wi-Fi as mirrors.
• Boilers can absorb Wi-Fi signals like a sponge.
• Do not locate it in a kitchen due to the metal in any large appliances, such as washing machines or fridge freezers, etc. Do not assume that Wi-Fi signals will pass through these items either, as they normally contain metal.
• Do not block the Wi-Fi signals with large furniture, such as sofas and tables, etc.
• Keep away from wireless doorbell pushes/speakers (not to be confused with video doorbells operating over Wi-Fi devices from manufacturers such as Ring, TP-Link or Reolink, etc).
• Do not locate them near any cordless phone base stations.

Desktop PC recommendations
If the PC has a tower case:-

• If the Wi-Fi adapter connects inside the case with antennae located behind the metal at the back of the case, this will restrict Wi-Fi signals from being received or transmitted from it. Try to purchase an SMB magnetic mount extension to get the antennae above the case.
• If it is a USB Wi-Fi adapter, use a USB socket on the front of the PC, as there is more open space around it than at the rear. If a USB extension cable is used, try to ensure that it is fairly short so that the power from the computer is not attenuated. Long extension cables can cause the adapter to not have enough power from the computer to work correctly. Try again to look for a USB 3 extension unit. When buying such an adapter, always look for a USB 3 model as a minimum and connect it to a USB 3 socket on the PC.

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Gryphin 

Whilst I only have FF150, not 900, my experience with eeros is that the speeds were quite a bit lower than ever the 150Mbps. With the Hub 3, I get a much improved signal & add in a FAST266 WiFi booster to create a Wi-Fi 6 mesh, the signal travels even further. However, I totally agree with @ferguson, with Wi-Fi, it is so difficult to be certain about anywhere else than your own property. Currently, unless your current contract has less than four months to run, I think you would have to pay £80 if you want a Wi-Fi Hub 3 and £30 for each FAST266 booster. Now to try & get the best from either eeros or Hub 3 on FF900, there are three main areas to consider, I shall address two of these in this post & my next one, otherwise, this post will be far too long:-

1. Why are you getting less than the full 900Mbps (see later in this post)?
2. Ideal locations of gateway & extender mesh nodes. I did notice you may well have them in the only possible locations, but as this can also involve the locations of other items in your property, as well, I have included this. (see next post).
3. Wi-Fi interference. This is a longer & more complex subject & so I will only deal with this one when you have done as much as is possible with the first two.

The Full Fibre 500 or 900 packages often mean that customers do not achieve the speeds they expect (typically around 500 or 900Mbps). Firstly, you do not typically need the fastest speed possible on just one device, but rather enough speed to accomplish your tasks without compromising performance on all devices. As an example:-

1. Up to 15Mbps – basic online activities such as web browsing, emails and watching low-resolution videos.
2. 15-50Mbps – HD video streaming and managing a small number of smart devices in the home.
3. 50-100Mbps – 4K video streaming on one or two devices, online gaming, and supporting a limited number of smart devices in the home.
4. 100Mbps or more – 4K video streaming on multiple devices and supporting a good number of smart devices around the home.

However, I can help you achieve the fastest speeds possible on your devices. This is often not an issue or design of these services, but the connection between their devices and the router. The Wi-Fi network adapters in these devices often cannot deliver speeds as fast as the fibre service can.

Take the example of some older Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) adapters that might work at speeds up to 433Mbps, when used in a perfect wireless environment, which most homes are not. When an internet speed test is performed, the speed achieved is down to the slowest link in the chain, namely the 433Mbps Wi-Fi adapter. Speed tests in this case might achieve somewhere around 400Mbps or less.

Older Ethernet connections can suffer as well. If a device only supports the 10/100Mbps standard, not the normal 1000Mbps (1Gbps) or even the newer 2.5Gbps available on some desktop PCs, they are likely to only record 100Mbps on a speed test.

To get close to the 500/900Mbps on a speed test, that device must either have a minimum of a 1Gbps Ethernet connection or, if wireless, a faster Wi-Fi adapter. This would be a higher specification Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) or Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) adapter.

While Wi-Fi 6 is not designed to boost download speeds significantly, the new features will allow more connected devices. That said, faster speeds (up to 2.4Gbps) will be available if the environmental conditions allow the use of a 160MHz channel bandwidth. Even so, at these wireless speeds, signal quality must be near perfect (signal strength with very little Wi-Fi interference).

There are some basic checks that you can do to ensure that your devices have the best chance of achieving these higher speeds:-

1. Check that these devices are connected to the 5GHz Wi-Fi band, not the 2.4GHz band. If you have the eero Pro 6, then as many devices as possible should be using the 5GHz (High) band.
2. Which eero Pro 6 (if applicable) is each device connected to? It should always be the gateway or closest/fastest extender node. The more extender nodes that you go through to get to the gateway, the slower the speed will always be. In fact, you will probably need to be connected to the gateway to have any chance of these speeds. Additionally, with the eero Pro 6, any device capable of a 2402Mbps link speed must be connected to the 5GHz (High) Wi-Fi band and use a 160MHz channel bandwidth, which is very unlikely to work due to environmental conditions. The 5GHz (Low) band is not as high a specification as the 5GHz (High) one.
3. To aid with step 2 (again for eeros), is "Client Steering" enabled within the eero app, as well as "Local DNS Caching"?
4. Have you checked for Wi-Fi interference, a topic that I can provide a lot of help with?

[Gryphin]

Okay thank you, I will wait for you reply tomorrow then.

[Gliwmaeden2]

Yes, @ferguson, it was more a question of, if they wanted support from Talktalk at all for this they might as well go via the phone / Chat channels which forum support would send them to anyway. So not worth hanging on till after the weekend. 

Hopefully @Gryphin will have picked up @KeithFrench's offer of help. As you say, that might be the most direct course of action for the wifi issue. 

[KeithFrench]

Hi @Gryphin 

@ferguson has asked me to help you. I will read through the thread tomorrow afternoon and get back to you then.

[ferguson]

@Gliwmaeden2 

Looks like a WiFi issue rather than with the Full Fibre connection as such: "When I run tests on the Eero app, I see full speeds, and I’m guessing I would get that if I were wired in. Unfortunately, since the modem is in the dining room, it’s not possible to run cables around the house."

[Gliwmaeden2]

@Gryphin, if you do have issues with your data only Full Fibre, staff tend to direct you to phone no. 03451 720074 (closed now till Monday, 9am) or the Full Fibre team with Chat. 

[ferguson]

Honestly? I wouldn't bother unless you have a complete service failure. 

[Gryphin]

Thanks, If I want quick response than Monday will online chat be quicker I noticed there open on Sat: 08:00 - 19:00, Sun: 09:00 - 19:00 but I don't know if they would be able to help with something like this.

[ferguson]

OK, I have flagged this up to a fellow user who can provide excellent advice on this sort of thing. Beyond that, the support team will pick this up when they are back online from Monday. 

[Gryphin]

I've tried all the different locations I can, because of house layout and available sockets and nothing works. I just remember using Old Wifi Hub and it being a lot better speed and more stable connection. Never had a problem, since switching to Eero it be barely stable and low speeds also you loose a lot of router settings as well. 

[ferguson]

If you are craving new kit then be careful what you wish for!  Everything with wireless connections is so variable. Personally I was disappointed when I used a Hub 3 and booster. So I have stuck with a couple of eeros, although it took a fair bit of trial and error to position them to best effect around my home. Presently I manage around 700+ on average with WiFi which is good enough for me on my Fibre 900 plan. 

@KeithFrench any thoughts here, please?