Xbox Showing Moderate Nat/Unable to acquire Nat Teredo Error

[DanMay94]

Hi all,

Hoping somebody can help. I have had a talktalk fast router for a week now and have so far been unable to game on my Xbox series x. I either get an error stating a NAT type cannot be acquired, or I get a moderate NAT temporarily until it goes back to ‘unable to acquire’. I know a little about networking so I have tried manually port forwarding the Xbox ports etc however I can only seem to get the Xbox to get an open NAT for 5-10 minutes. I have read in a few other posts UPnP seems to be bugged on the latest firmware for this router which the Xbox requires to work. If this is the case, the router really isn’t fit for purpose. I tried calling talktalks technical support, and I must say they weren’t very helpful at all.

Any help would be much appreciated!

[KeithFrench]

Hi @DanMay94 

Whilst I cannot see why it would make the rule vanish out of the router's UI, you did set a DHCP Reserved IP address for the Xbox in the router, didn't you?

[KeithFrench]

I can understand that the ports close on the Xbox, but not it le: disappearing out of the UI. This is why I have requested many times to see a screenshot of these rules, so that I can try & replicate them & if I can, pass it over to TalkTalk as a bug.

You mentioned again UPnP, but I have already said that there is a bug in the current firmware that prevents this facility from working.

[DanMay94]

Hi Keith,

My understanding is limited so I can only tell you what I see. When the Xbox initially connects to the router, I can see the initial port open in the router UI. As soon as I launch any game, the rule is no longer in the UI - and the Xbox then picks another port which the router doesn’t then open, resulting in my NAT issues.

As I say, so far wired via power line adapters, the Xbox always stays on the same port and so far I’ve had no issues.

[KeithFrench]

Are you saying then @DanMay94 that the rules stay in the router's UI, but it is just that the Xbox keeps closing the ports? That would make more sense as I have never seen rules just disappearing from the UI. It does sound like this is a WiFi interference issue.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi Dan,

Thank you for the update. As soon as the new firmware is available then your router will be automatically updated, this usually happens out of hours/overnight to avoid disruption.

Thanks

Michelle

[DanMay94]

Hi All,

Quick update on where I’m at - the Xbox does simply not play well with this router wirelessly. It seems for whatever reason, the Xbox, in combination with this router, keeps jumping around ports and UPnP always seems to fail. 

However, last night I set up some power line adapters so that I can try a hardwired Ethernet connection - so far so good! The Xbox now remains on the same port and works reliably so far without drop out with an open nat.

 I’m hoping this will be the end of my troubles but I will report back if for whatever reason it fails again. I will look forward to the next router update however.

Thanks all for your help!

[KeithFrench]

I have never seen port forwarding rules disappearing from the router's config. Hence why I have asked several times for screenshots of them so that I can check them & see if I can replicate the issue. Please PM them to me.

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Hi Dan,

Please let us know how you get on.

Thanks

Michelle

[DanMay94]

Hi Keith,

Many thanks but I will hold off for now, I’ll have a tinker today and if I get nowhere I will reach out to try a second router.

Thanks for your help though! 

[KeithFrench]

Try another router, in case that one is faulty. I will ask TalkTalk to send you one.

[DanMay94]

Thank you Keith.

As predicted, after 10 minutes of gaming on an open NAT with port forwarding on UPnP off, straight back to 'unable to acquire'

*facepalm*. It seems that after a factory reset, providing you touch no settings on the router, my Xbox appears to works fairly reliably - it worked for one night! I will have one last go at it but I am feeling a bit stuck.

Thank you for your reply Michele.

Whilst I appreciate new firmware will be coming, what am I as a new talktalk customer meant to do in the meantime? Unless I am doing something very stupid (which I admit is a possibility!), there must be other talk talk customers out there having similar issues to me? 

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

We're hoping that the new firmware will be available within the next month.

Thanks

Michelle

[KeithFrench]

Most routers have bugs in them and some manufacturers simply do not fix them. There are rumours of new firmware in the next few months. I am hopeful that all of the bugs I reported will be fixed in this release, but I have no idea until I test the new release.

I can't make any comments on what TalkTalk's phone support told you. If a device is 802.11b/g/n/ac or ax, it is compatible, that is why we have standards - see the "OSI 7 layer model".

[DanMay94]

Hi Keith,

Thank you for that, I do understand and that is helpful. At the end of the day however, I just would like to be able to game on this internet. My Xbox worked perfectly fine with my last provider on their stock router which used UPnP, and I didn’t need to do anything. 

I am tinkering as we speak, and for now using port forwarding I have managed to acquire an open NAT - it’s just for how long I don’t know. The fact this router has known bugs and broken features doesn’t feel me with confidence - hence my not fit for purpose claim. TalkTalk phone support actually told me my device ‘wasn’t’ compatible, which seems pretty funny.

Are TalkTalk about to send me out a different router with a different hardware configuration or something if I cannot get this to work? So far the whole experience has been pretty frustrating. 

[KeithFrench]

UPnP rules are only temporary. It is impossible to test out your rules unless you send them to me. Best to do it via a PM to preserve your privacy.

Any malware etc that manages to infect a device on your local network can utilise UPnP, just like legitimate applications can. Whilst a router normally blocks incoming connections, preventing some malicious access, UPnP could allow a malicious process to bypass the firewall entirely. What it does is to create some temporary port forwarding in the router to allow certain TCP or UDP ports through the router's firewall and direct them to a local device's IP address.

There is no mitigating this problem, because UPnP treats all local applications as trustworthy and allows them to forward ports without any username/password challenges. The only way to make uPnP secure is to disable it. 

[DanMay94]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for helping out.

I have hardware version - FAST F5364-3.T8.

Interestingly, I performed a factory reset last night, and wahey I thought that had solved it, I managed to game on my Xbox for the first time in a week with open NAT, default settings on the router, UPnP on, port forwarding rules off. However, this morning when I separated out the 2.4g and 5g signals, and connected by Xbox to my 5g network, my Xbox has gone straight back to ‘NAT unavailable’

I understand UPnP isn’t ‘secure’ however it is more or less absolutely required by gaming devices like Xbox, and in any case the feature should work should it not? With UPnP on, I can see that the router initially opens the port for my Xbox, but then as soon as I try and launch any game, the router seem to ‘forget’ the rule and it disappears from the list.

With UPnP disabled and port forwarding on, I use the ‘Xbox’ preset rule with opens all port for Xbox, I have made sure my Xbox IP is static and all rules are applied to that IP, however it just doesn’t work. Best I get is a ‘moderate NAT’, but I still can’t connect to games like Call of Duty Servers’. I’m puzzled! 

[KeithFrench]

Hi @DanMay94 

@Michelle-TalkTalk has asked me to help you with this, which hardware revision do you have on your 5364?

I do not agree though that the router is not fit for purpose. Yes, I found a bug in the current firmware that UPnP no longer works, but UPnP itself is a highly insecure facility & should never be used on any router.

Please can you send me details of the port forwarding so I can check it for you?

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

@KeithFrench - have you ever come across this before?

Thanks

Michelle

[DanMay94]

Hi Debbie,

Due to the placement of my router, I haven’t tried wired, although I doubt that will fix the issue.

From what I can see, it appears as if the router isn’t allowing my Xbox Series X to communicate outside of my network - on games such as call of duty I get an error ‘unable to communicate with network’, then when I look at the NAT type on my Xbox, it is either ‘unavailable’ or ‘moderate’. As I say, UPnP or Port Forwarding usually resolves this, but I’ve tried both on this router on the 174 software and can’t get anywhere.

All worked fine with my previous provider.

[Debbie-TalkTalk]

Hi DanMay94

Have you also tried a wired connection? It should work on wireless though.