Closure of TV Store

[Hax75]

Hello,

Apologies if this is not the right section to post this.

With the upcoming closure of the TalkTalk TV store, I want to know what happens to the content I have purchased?

I have 75 movies there - which is a reasonable number with quite a significant monetary value - let's say £10/movie - most more than this, some less - so around £750.

Are TalkTalk going to be issuing refunds to those who have purchased content through them?

Or are they just going to keep the money and run? I paid to own the right to see these movies as and when I wanted - I wasn't just renting them...

[Gondola]

Hi @Porto2Calpe 

You'll have seen if you read back through this topic that TalkTalk closed the TalkTalk TV Store last October. Were you notified at the time? TalkTalk say they notified all affected customers but in practice it transpires that they chose to notify just those few customers that had actively used their owned content in the previous 12 months prior to notification of intended closure.

I did get notified. I was offered a derisory token sum for my owned content. A final offer no negotiation. To achieve full payment to repurchase the owned content and compensation for TalkTalk's failure to abide by its T&C's I had to go through the CISAS process that is akin to making a presentation in a court of law. TalkTalk settled a bit like "settling out of court" to pay the claim in full.

So, if you wish to do so then follow the complaints process that is linked to at the foot of this page.

[Porto2Calpe]

I also purchased several movies from the tv store and am unable to access these. So annoying, what can be done to put this right. When you speak to someone at Talktalk, nobody seems to know what you are talking about

[Gondola]

What seriously concerns me about TalkTalk's underhand, unreasonable and unfair attitude towards notifying and compensating customers is also not doing what's best for customers that have purchased early cinema release movies in 2020 and up to September 2021 to watch at home because Cinemas were closed and or customers felt safer watching at home during the early pandemic.

If those customers have not signed in to the TalkTalk TV Store since late 2022 to watch or re-watch any of their movies then TalkTalk, according to a spokesperson talking to the 'Film Stories' website, have not notified those customers that their owned digital content is lost to them forever from the end of October.

The updated Help content about More TV and the closure of the TV Store being hidden away in Community help pages without any other banner notifiications on any TalkTalk website or any customer MyAccount is simply not good enough to alert all customers to the loss of their owned digital content. The Help content says "We'll be communicating directly with all customers who are adversely impacted by this change." But TalkTalk have openly admitted that was not a true statement at the time of publication.

TalkTalk has an obligation under section 16 of its own Terms & Conditions to give all customers materially disadvantaged by its business decision at least 30 days' written notice. But only those customers that have watched their owned content in the last year have been contacted albeit not all customers have received at least 30 days' written notice.

I call upon TalkTalk to deal openly, honestly and fairly, abandon its underhand tactics and communicate directly with ALL customers that are impacted. Then to compensate promptly and fairly at the current market price or for content purchased from 2020 at the full purchase price.

Goodwill payment for failure to reasonably notify, inconvenience and distress caused must also in my opinion accompany a profound apology from TalkTalk's Executive Chairman Sir Charles Dunstone. You, Sir Charles must take ultimate responsibility for failing to meet the TalkTalk Group promise "We'll always do what's best for our customers".

[Gondola]

Hi cinemasitter 

I've now found out why you didn't receive any notification from TalkTalk about the closure of the TalkTalk TV Store.

The Film Stories website is also carrying a story about the TalkTalk Store closure and features extracts from the experiences here.

There's clarification on the 100 or so people impacted. TalkTalk, have clarified to Film Stories "that customers who have been using their digital purchases over the last 12 months were the ones contacted, and that fewer than 100 people are affected."

TalkTalk deny that they are offering compensation to only those people that have signed in to the TalkTalk TV Store in the last 12 months BUT clarify that the customers that are being contacted ARE ONLY those people that have signed in to the TalkTalk TV Store in the last 12 months.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing if the ones not contacted don't ask for compensation because they don't know they have to ask? Does make TalkTalk look very underhand in enacting its business decision.

So, it is the case that there are probably many more people in excess of the 100 or so that TalkTalk are contacting. Member cinemasitter is one of those not contacted by TalkTalk. The failure to reasonably notify is something to add to your claim to CISAS.

So many more customers with owned content may not be aware that the TalkTalk TV Store is closing simply because TalkTalk has not contacted them. Why not? TalkTalk has the email addresses of all TalkTalk TV Store customers. There's no excuse.

TalkTalk have made a business decision to close the TV Store. Not published the contact email address online which is not the normal TalkTalk contact address nor published any dedicated 'phone contact number and now we find out that not all customers are being notified. Who is advising TalkTalk in this matter?

[Gondola]

The issue was picked up first, this morning, by the website Cordbusters. So that's two websites referring to your experience with TalkTalk, being paid a derisory sum in compensation and accepting that or accepting the stress and hassle of being forced by TalkTalk to make a reasoned claim to CISAS. 

According to Cordbusters, TalkTalk say there are only around a hundred people involved. So is that true or do TalkTalk just expect to have to settle compensation to a hundred people? You never know what the true figure is based on. And 'true figure' is appropriate for the TalkTalk estimate of the value of the owned content. Via CISAS, demand that the TalkTalk valuation is itemised and proven by reference to re-purchasing that content to view, by you, anytime on demand at current prices. i.e. A like-for-like comparison with the current TalkTalk TV Store.

We'll see what happens in the next 10 days.

__________________________________________________

Latest:

The reader comments on the ispreview website are interesting to read - scroll down below the article to view. There are pointers to the precedent of TalkTalk in 2018 moving non-customer owned content to Rakuten TV, and the examples of other online content services closing and refunding customers in full or giving vouchers to purchase replacement content elsewhere. All comments seen so far are wholly negative to the way that TalkTalk is handling the closure of the TalkTalk TV Store.

[Hax75]

Interesting to see this being picked up by a reasonably large website.

Unfortunately, my time has been somewhat occupied with work and other matters so I haven't had chance to write a reasoned letter to CISAS yet, but I'm hoping this weekend I will have a bit more time to do this.

Thanks for your updates Gondola, appreciate them

[Gondola]

Hi Hax75 

One of my go-to industry websites isp review has just published a feature quoting your experience. Interesting reading.

ISPreview - Broadband ISP TalkTalk Shut UK Digital TV Store – Customers Lose Purchases

[Gondola]

My case and claim against TalkTalk plc has been accepted by CISAS and TalkTalk now have 10 days in which to settle or submit a defence.

Interesting statistics from CISAS website suggest that TalkTalk settle 74% of claims and CISAS uphold 24% of claims and reject only 1% of claims. So, 99% of reasonable claims are settled by TalkTalk or upheld by CISAS.

What's seriously upsetting is that TalkTalk offer a derisory compensation sum in the hope that customers will accept that and not bother with the presentation of effectively a legal case and claim to CISAS. TalkTalk force you to go through the stress and time wasting of preparing and submitting a claim.

My advice is to submit a reasonable claim to CISAS and ask for an apology from TalkTalk for making you go through the stress and hassle and to pay your claim plus goodwill to cover your wasted time and stress.  Even if TalkTalk are forced to defend themselves and to pay the hefty fees of the arbitration they'll probably still save money by making a derisory offer of compensation to the customers that do not bother making a case to CISAS. They'll have worked out already what it would cost via each scenario.

[Gondola]

My experience so far is that just like member cinemasitter I received no email notification. I did receive a letter of notification on 6 October. TalkTalk's response is that I was notified on 23 September and then they changed that to notified on 28 September. My view is that the agents are fabricating notification dates based on when other customers may have been sent notifications but that bears no relation to the actual notification in my case. I deliberately didn't tell them that the letter from TalkTalk was dated 29 September and the legal deemed delivery date for that is 2 October but knowing how the TalkTalk letters system works my bet is that it did not get posted by their third party agent until nearer to or on 5 October. The information that they provide to CISAS may not be true so point out all discrepancies.  Any notification sent 29 September or later is not legally deemed to provide the normal / reasonable 30 day notification period. Which will be why they're fabricating the 28 September date in my case.

I also like member Hax75 got an almost identical full and final response on 18 October. Rubber stamp unconsidered uncaring take it or leave it. And unfortunately most people would probably consider the time and faff of asking CISAS to adjudicate on the fairness of TalkTalk's actions would just take up too much time. This of course is exactly what TalkTalk expect to happen.

The devaluation that TalkTalk have placed on the owned content does not reflect current purchase costs for replacement on a streaming platform like Rakuten TV where content can be purchased, owned and streamed on demand at any time.  TalkTalk assert there's a significant depreciation element. An early release movie may have been purchased at £39.99 but if it's current purchase price is £9.99 then it's a nonsense to say it's depreciated to 50p or less. The amount due to the customer is £9.99, the current buy to own price on a streaming platform like Rakuten TV that's equivalent to TalkTalk TV Store.

TalkTalk are relying on T&C 3.1 to remove content so they can close down the TalkTalk TV Store to save money. It's a business decision. The customer cannot then exercise the right of T&C 6.1 to view owned digital content. But there's nothing in the T&C that grants TalkTalk Group the right to avoid compensating customers fairly for the loss of owned digital content or it's replacement on a streaming platform like Rakuten TV (RTV). The precedent is when TalkTalk Group decided to withdraw access to non-customers to keep the TalkTalk TV Store for TalkTalk customers and TalkTalk moved content to RTV or provided fair compensation based on the current purchase price on other platforms when not actually available on RTV.

In my case CISAS have received my claim. I'll let you know what happens.

[cinemasitter]

No they didn't. I've been waiting for some sort of confirmation but there appears to be a problem with me receiving their emails, so it's possible they have tried to let me know. I've tried chasing them again this morning. 

I agree with your points about the 30 days warning and off-net customers not losing access to their content, or if they did I believe they were compensated for them via Rakuten points?

I understand why they want to close digital libraries if they no longer want to support them, but this sudden rush to closure and their method of calculating compensation does strike me as being unfair in the extreme.

[Gondola]

Thanks for your contribution to this topic.

I'm not surprised that one of the criteria for compensation is whether the owned content has been watched after the TV Store closed for new purchases and rentals on 30 September 2021. An analysis probably indicates that many owners of content don't often return to re-watch that content and many just forget about it because it was a purchase to view early after release and not really to keep. 

However, when the TalkTalk Store closed for new purchases and rentals the notification on the Store website stated "You will still have access to your owned content."

When TalkTalk ceased to provide access to off-net customers their owned content was moved by TalkTalk to RakutenTV. Those former customers did not lose owned content.

I also was not given the expected 30 days' prior notification of the loss of my owned content. On 6 October I did receive a letter from TalkTalk telling me the TV Store will close. I have made representations.

Interesting that you got an acknowledgement by way of a 'phone call but no actual resolution yet. Did the caller say when TalkTalk would give you their full and final response?

[cinemasitter]

Hi, thanks for posting this everyone. I didn't receive the email so I emailed the address above directly. I got a call back to say that compensation is calculated based on whether a customer has watched something in their library in the last 12 months, and how many purchases they made before the store was closed. I don't have many purchases and I haven't watched anything there in the last 12 months, so I'm not holding my breath. It's the lack of an option to migrate that is really annoying me. At least previous services that closed allowed a migration or reimbursement (including TalkTalk themselves when they handed over store-only customers to Rakuten TV). As Hax75 says, I bought these films to own, not to rent. As a full TalkTalk customer at the time, I feel like store-only customers have been treated better than full TT customers. This is shockingly poor treatment and TalkTalk should be embarrassed.

[Hax75]

The first two movies I checked are selling on Rakuten for £13.99 each. Checked a few others and typically £7.99 upwards.

Definitely a complaint I will be taking forward to CISAS once I have compiled the list of movies I have bought and the current retail prices from Rakuten, Amazon, etc

[Gondola]

Have you looked at the purchase price for your content at RakutenTV?

The disappointing aspect is that TalkTalk are making a take it or leave it offer. So you'd have to take it to CISAS to get TalkTalk to justify their case that the content is available to you on demand for £25 in total.

[Karl-TalkTalk]

Hi Hax75,

I'm sorry if you disagree with the decision of our CEO Teams. This is a business decision and I'm unable to override this.  As they mention, If you disagree, you can pursue a complaint externally via organisations such as CISAS.

Regards,

Karl. 

[Hax75]

Well, this is the disappointing result I have received:

 

Basically, in my case, they value the movies at around 33p each...

[Karl-TalkTalk]

Hi Hax75,

If you have contacted the email address as set out in the mail you have received, these will go through to a Team that will specifically handle these requests and contact you directly.

Thanks  

Karl. 

[Gondola]

Interesting that you got an email 3 days ago. I've not seen my personalised one yet and if the notifications haven't all been sent then some customers may not get the expected 30 days' notice.

The email doesn't say "tough luck" at all. It's just implying that there is no prescribed solution as there was previously. Some customers won't bother if they only have a few movies and don't want to watch them again. Some will have purchased to be the first to watch but don't need to watch again. And let's face it unless there are classic movies that are worth watching again and again this might be the case for many.

But for you and me, we purchased to watch again for one reason or another.

So yes, you just need to contact the customer resolutions team that have been set up to work out a suitable and acceptable resolution to both parties. I'm sure they'll have figured out a realistic value for the content so will be able to offer a solution.

Do let us know what options they have available as it's handy to go in to a negotiation armed with the knowledge of their proposals.

[Hax75]

Here is the email I received:

 

I've emailed them right away, but no reply yet, of I hear anything I'll post back here.

But at the moment it reads like they're just closing it and tough luck if you have content there, you're going to just lose it.. 

[Gondola]

Hi Hax75 

Good question and one that we've not been briefed on. The advice on the closure of the TV Store is given here: TV Store closes on 31 October 2023. TalkTalk say they will communicate with affected customers that have got purchased content in the online store. I've not yet received that communication myself so await the answer.

In the past, content has been transferred to Rakuten TV when possible - but whether that's the proposal this time around?