cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | would you rather see results for 
Did you mean: 
Need help?

Plume and other Mesh systems?

Reply
Highlighted
Conversation Starter

@Gondola And also, there's no attenuation on the upload?

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

...Unlikely to be a telephone but the simple solution is to unplug any telephones. Could be a faulty microflter with high resistance connection(s) and depends on the design of the surge protector.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Community Star

...We've seen the 0dB upstream line attenuation issue before and it is a Wi-Fi Hub reporting problem. Quite possible that the Wi-Fi Hub isn't performing as expected on your line.

 

But if you test with the Wi-Fi Hub plugged into a microfilter and that plugged into the Test Socket then the first act of carefully withdrawing the faceplate of the Master Socket will disconnect all extensions.  With the Hub connected to the line you'll have a comparison test with and without home telephone extensions, 'phones and accessories.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

Hi again @Gondola...

 

Okay, disconnected everything and left the router turned off for 30 minutes so it didn't look like a disconnection. Removed all telephones and anything that might interfere, tried a new filter and plugged into the test socket.

 

Here are the stats:

 

TalkTalk.PNG

The speed has gone up but the actual rate is still higher than the maximum rate and the attenuation is still the same.

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

...I'm not happy with the attenuation figure as it definitely doesn't match the estimated line length to the street cabinet. And there's obviously something not right with the reported max rate versus actual access line speed.

 

I'd feel happier if we got you an alternate router to test with.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

@Gondola I did try using my own Netgear router a month or so ago and it only had a DHCP lease time of 15 minutes. I was told that this was probably because it was not a TalkTalk approved router and I should stick with one provided by TalkTalk.

 

How would you suggest moving forwards?

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Conversation Starter

@Gondola And I did send the Netgear router back because of this.

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

...If the Netgear router wasn't configured to request the lease renewal then this would cause a connection drop.

 

What normally happens is that the Openreach DHCP server is requested to renew the lease at the half-way point in the lease being granted. So, the Openreach lease is 15 minutes but is automatically renewed at seven and a half minutes and the IP address is maintained. There isn't a problem with this method of operation and it's very efficient.

 

If you don't have an alternative to test with I'll ask the TalkTalk team to consider letting you have an alternative router for tests on a temporary basis if that's ok with you.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

@Gondola I have got an old BT Openreach modem that I could use?

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

...worth trying.

 

You'll need an Ethernet cable to connect the LAN port on the Openreach modem to the WAN port on the Wi-Fi Hub.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

Hi again @Gondola and @OCE_Michelle 

 

So, after a bit of a hassle, I have managed to set up another modem to get the following stats:

 

TalkTalkStats.PNG

 

Let me know your thoughts!

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

...The 'new' line attenuation figure indicates an access line speed of around 69Mbps. But it also indicates a metallic line length of around 500m which still seems more than anticipated.

 

The S/N ratio is often set high when the attainable line rate or maximum speed is a lot higher than the DSLAM's capped product speed. For example, if the line could theoretically support a speed of 90Mbps but the DSLAM limits this to 80Mbps.

 

If you can, leave the setup as is for a few days and see if the errors diminish, the S/N ratio goes down and the speed goes up.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

Thanks @Gondola.

 

I planned on leaving the current set up in place for a while so that the connection didn't drop further.

 

I'll pick this up in a few days.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Conversation Starter

Hi @Gondola and @OCE_Michelle 

 

I have left the set up for a few days and please see the new line stats:

 

TalkTalkStats2.PNG

I wondered what you thoughts were on this?

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

Hi jmclevine 

 

The error count hasn't increased at all which means the line is stable and good. The attenuation figure for the line is consistent with my calculated 69Mbps speed and that's pretty much what's being delivered. 

 

If I hadn't expected the line length to be shorter / the attenuation figure to be lower I'd say the broadband service was performing as expected. 

 

It's clear that the Wi-Fi Hub is showing a different set of line statistics that doesn't tie in at all with the modem stats.

 

Disregarding that, if the 68-69Mbps speed is within the expected range for the line then it'll be difficult to get Openreach to investigate further. So the key questions are:

  • What's the expected downstream speed range?
  • What's the minimum guaranteed access line speed?
 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

Hi again @Gondola,

 

Thanks again for all of your insight. I have switched back to using the TalkTalk WiFi Hub as the modem and connected the Orbi back to it in DMZ mode. This seems to be a more stable way of accessing the internet. With the BT Openreach Modem during some DHCP lease sessions I could not access the internet and had to manually refresh the DHCP lease in order to access the internet.

 

Anyway, here are the stats after I connected it back to the TalkTalk WiFi Hub:

 

TalkTalkStats3.PNG

It appears that the download speed has increased but again, and as with the Openreach modem, the maximum rate is lower than the actual rate. The attenuation has gone back to the higher value. I've also noticed quite a bit of fluctuation with the upload speeds during this process. While the download speeds seem to slowly be increasing the upload seems to yo-yo a bit.

 

I checked my order confirmation and it shows the following information:

Minimum guaranteed speed: 40.5Mb

Typical download speed: 47.8Mb to 71.6Mb (my current connection speed is on the higher end of that spectrum)

Typical upload speed: 12.2Mb to 18.9Mb (my current connection speed is on the lower end of that spectrum

 

I was definitely getting higher speeds than this with Sky, so I thought I would run my details through their website and this is what I goat:

Minimum guaranteed speed: 54Mb

Typical download speed: 60Mb to 73Mb

Typical upload speed: 18Mb to 19Mb

 

The TalkTalk stats seem to fit with the service I am getting but the Sky stats seem to fit with the service I was getting from them. I assumed that all Fibre connections were provided via BT Openreach so not sure how they can differ?

 

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Star

Hi jmclevine 

 

On the 3.1dB noise margin figure. The last few days without any errors is a good indicator that the metallic line is intrinsically interference free and as such would qualify for the Openreach Strategic Dynamic Line Management to use the xdB process allowing good (unimpaired) lines to work with a signal to noise margin as low as 3dB.

 

On the estimates of line speed. These are based on Openreach survey data. My belief is that both Sky and TalkTalk order the standard profile versus the speed or stable profiles.  Your line would certainly take the speed profile and maybe these are the figures that Sky are quoting if the speed profile has been used for the line before. I cannot think of any other reason for the disparity in the quoted figures. 

 

Openreach do apply charges for profile changes so ISP's don't usually offer profile changes as a service.

 

As for the line attenuation disparity. There's some misreporting somehow. It certainly doesn't help me in the analysis of line performance.

 

I think the OCE's could step in at this point and see if the reported line stats are replicated in tests from their end.

 Gondola - Volunteer 2017-2020

To appreciate my help . . . If I offered a solution Best Answer

Highlighted
Community Team - TT Staff

Hi jmclevine,

 

I think the speeds quoted by SKY and the speeds quoted by ourselves may be different because they are potentially referring to sync speed while we are referring to throughput speeds. Do you know if the speeds quoted by SKY are the estimated sync speeds or throughput speeds?

 

Chris

Highlighted
Conversation Starter

Hi @OCE_Chris,

 

I assumed it meant throughput. When I was with Sky the sync speed was about 78Mbps.

 

The sync speed has now increased to 70 Mbps, however the “maximum rate” is showing as 68Mbps. Is there a reason why the actual rate always appears higher than the actual rate?

 

Thanks

“The journey home, is never too far...”
Highlighted
Community Team - TT Staff

Hi jmclevine

 

Is this showing in the router settings?

 

Thanks

 

Debbie