Eero after TT

[Webb3284]

Hi,

We had Fibre 900 installed back in September 2022, as part of this we were sent 2x Eero Pro 6’s which were advertised as “Free” and back then the T&C’s stated that we would own them after contract ended. I’m aware that the T&C’s have since been changed so that newer customers would have to return theirs at contract end, but those T&C’s can’t apply to us as it was after we agreed the contract.

Does anyone on here have any insight into whether or not TT will honour their original T&C’s without a fuss? It would be dishonest & illegal for them to deactivate our Eero units if/when we leave next month, but as with all big companies that doesn’t mean it won’t happen!

Thanks 

[ferguson]

Topic locked to avoid further spamming.

[Webb3284]

Hi Arne,

Your comment doesn’t upset me, but the concern is appreciated.

Can I just ask on what basis would TT ask for the devices back? They are my property, so it would be very strange for a company to ask me to send them something they have no legal title to!

Ethics (environmental & moral) of the situation aside, as a TT staff member can you please provide proof (either in public on this thread or by email) that you have told me you will be locking the devices to your network? As you’ll no doubt have gathered, this whole situation rests on clause 7.5 of the relevant T&C’s, which clearly states that if the supplied devices are to be locked I will be told.

I’m not being pedantic, but if I honour my end of the contract (pay my bills etc), I expect TT to do the same and follow the T&C’s which formed the basis of the contract. It’s also worth mentioning that TT have never actually sent me a copy of the contract nor is it available on my account, as far as I can tell.

[Arne-TalkTalk]

Hi Webb3284

Without trying to re-ignite this argument I've read through the thread and  this is the situation:

The Eero's are locked to our network, should you leave our service  they cannot be used on another network, this is a decision that has been made and wont be changed,  upon leaving we will request the equipment back.

Im sorry if this upsets you. 

[fr8ys]

Oh, my last line got deleted somehow.

I added, how many people have useless, free, Sky or Virgin TV boxes lying around?

[Webb3284]

Gondola,

I found it offensive that you were essentially calling me a liar. I told you categorically that I was not made aware, at any time, as per term 7.5 of the T&C’s that TT would be locking my device (in all fairness they have not locked it as yet either). You used your own experiences to belittle mine and hence got my back up so the rebuttals were designed to reflect this. An explanation, not a carry on.

My name is my name and I’m aware it was posted in the picture. I don’t mind my name being visible, I don’t sign up for the tin-hat philosophy of modern times that everyone needs anonymity. In fact I believe that everyone should have their identities known and visible for culpability just like it would be IRL!

I had actually decided to stay with TT as I couldn’t be bothered with the process of potentially having devices lock up at an inopportune moment, but it would seem the universe has guided me along a different path as yet again that contract renewal didn’t take and I went onto the out-of-contract rate instead. When TT tried to renegotiate a higher price with me yesterday I finally decided to part ways and run the gauntlet with EE. 

I agree the BT Whole Home product is compatible with all ISP’s, but on a BT contract it’s loaned and not owned. If TT had wanted to follow suit they should loan the Eero devices not grant conditional ownership. This smacks so hard of 90’s mobile contracts when the handset was network locked post-contract and the morality of that practice was rightly addressed by Ofcom, as it should be now in this case too.

[Webb3284]

Hi Ferguson,

Thanks for weighing in….

In the ordering process there was actually no mention of it being 2x devices to be sent, in fact they turned up quite some time apart and I thought it was a mistake which TT later clarified as being intentional.

At the time of ordering I was looking at a “free” £150 Eero device on a £36/m deal over 18m (so essentially £8 odd of that monthly was the Eero). Other ISP’s were offering around the £30/m mark so that made sense as an incentive and upon checking the T&C’s I could see that it was owned by me, locked if informed (which never happened at order stage).

So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume full and unencumbered ownership after the 18m. 

Judging by other users experiences of ordering though, I do think that a part of the ordering process may have been missed/buggy as an explanation of why my experience was different and that would also explain why the install didn’t go ahead as planned. The order never completed online, it was done manually over chat.

[ufo_BN38EZ_1]

Yes, given their Ts & Cs state

1. 7.2  All such necessary equipment will be owned by us apart from the following equipment which you will own:

   1. (a)  any router, mesh networking device, set top box and/or digital voice adapter that we send you as part of a new service with us;

So if it is permanently locked to their service, it effectively becomes e-waste when you leave.

[fr8ys]

Many companies make a charge upfront for their equipment which may or may not be limited to delivery and installation charges.

In this respect Free means free of these charges to the consumer.

This is generally accepted advertising of things that are Free to the consumer.

Note I have been generic in my statement and not referenced any company in this.

[ferguson]

After first coming across this topic just now because it is near the top I decided to settle in with a bucket of popcorn and work my way through.

@Webb3284 

Did you honestly imagine that a two-pack of eero Pro 6 units, currently retailing on Amazon at £289.99, were yours to keep if you left TalkTalk?

[Gondola]

Hey, your personal screenshot from 2022 adds nothing useful but shows a first name for member Webb3284 which you may wish to delete especially if that's your date of birth as part of your Username.  TalkTalk Community asks all members to be kind and respectful and not to post offensive language or personal details here if you haven't had those drawn to your attention before now.

So, L, now that you've posted your first name in public I wish you to know first hand that your personal derogatory remarks have caused serious offence. You knew full well that you were out to cause offence by being personally abusive in multiple derogatory posts even after I asked you to stop.

In my opinion you have no case to put here or in a court of law - that's a waste of time as a legal professional should tell you straight out and as I've already pointed out to you. Noted that you are leaving TalkTalk which was obvious from the outset by wanting the free issue eero unlocked from TalkTalk.

Just for the avoidance of doubt the BT equivalent of the eero is the BT Whole Home Wi-Fi product that Works with all broadband providers.  And for the further avoidance of doubt I have been through the entire eero ordering process with TalkTalk, twice, so I do know what I'm talking about through direct knowledge of the specific eero terms and conditions of use.

Good luck with EE and goodbye.

[Webb3284]

If there was any coherence to your argument I wouldn’t need to keep correcting you. I apologise if it hurts your feelings to be corrected, it’s not my intention to offend you.

You said BT products are for sale from the BT shop for use on any network, that simply isn’t true…. And we’re talking about routers here, not the plethora of other electronic consumer goods that are out there. Your argument was that TT follow the same practice as BT in locking supplied devices, but the Eero is an open-market device offered as “free” (with ownership from Day 1, in contrast to BT) and yet again…. Only locked to the TT network when TT inform a customer of the lock, invoking term 7.5 of the 7/21 T&C’s.

You have no reasonable opinion on whether or not I was, or have been since, informed of such lock. You were just present at the time of ordering and as far as I’m aware you do not have access to my emails. My post was to ask for people’s experience of wether or not TT would honour their T&C’s, not for your personal vendetta style approach of trying to convince me you know better of my specific circumstances.

FYI, my ordering experience was probably somewhat dissimilar to yours. I signed up to TT using a CityFibre referral link as an early-bird deal in our area. The ordering process was very broken at that time, the order didn’t actually process correctly and had to manually pushed through weeks later by customer service. For instance look at the email they sent me on 14th September saying my engineer visit is on 24th August!

My original question still stands, it will be interesting to see if TT do try and block my devices as I’ve decided today to contract with EE. If TT do block them, they’ll be receiving a court summons!

[Gondola]

I already said that BT routers are locked to the BT Network. YOU said that was anti-competitive. NOT me. I NEVER said anything about purchasing BT Smart Hubs I simply said purchasing BT products EXACTLY as the BT Shop says you can for ANY network.

Recycling current devices can mean using them as tested replacements for faulty devices. So this is making best use of the recycling programme.

Anyway, the main point is you are continuing to assert TalkTalk has no right to lock the eero for use only on the TalkTalk network. I can see they do have the right asserted not only in the online ordering process statements and in Terms and Conditions.

Your continued personal derogatory remarks are unacceptable.

[Webb3284]

What are you even on about?! BT Smart Hubs are available to purchase yea, but can only be used on BT networks… So my point stands.

Have you actually read the T&C’s, specifically the part in 7.5 where it says, in relation to equipment potentially being network locked, “We will tell you if this is the case”? Can you fathom that this term only applies if the condition of “telling me” is actually carried out?

TT have not told me that my equipment is network locked, therefore they do not have the right to lock it. It pains me to have to explain this over and over, but despite your love of TT and the relentless endeavour to defend them irrespective of morality, this is a plain and simple case of what is and what isn’t.

As for TT recycling devices to avoid environmental concerns, I do hope that’s a joke! Recycling a valuable and current device is just laughable when it has plenty of useable life left!

[Gondola]

BT products are available to purchase in multiple places for use on any network. For example BT Shop. Just as eeros purchased from TalkTalk or Amazon are for use on any network.

TalkTalk will take back devices for recycling so there is no environmental issue here.

The Customer terms and conditions stated are as the version dated 26 July 2021. So in this respect your order of September 2022 is covered both by the order process and confirmed in the T&C's.

Please do not be personally abusive.

[Webb3284]

“Get real” lol

It’s ok that you’re a TT fanboy, but you can wind your neck in a bit with the comments, especially when you’re wrong.

BT Broadband T&C’s state that the BT Hub is owned by BT, so to have that router locked makes plenty of sense. It’s also a proprietary device that just wouldn’t have the correct functionality on another ISP and is not sold on the open market for any other purpose. This is in stark contrast to the Eero devices which are not proprietary to TT and are openly sold to retail customers for use on every ISP…. Exactly like mobile phones.

As much as your fanboy brain fog would like you believe you’re right in everything you say TT related, you are in fact wrong on this. I was categorically NOT informed that the Eero devices I received were locked to TT, there was no mention of it during the order process because I distinctly remember checking what the catch was (seeing as I had already just purchased 3x Eero devices myself for a considerable sum) and although that information may have been available somewhere on the TT website at the time of ordering (March 2022), it certainly wasn’t prominent in the order process and I haven’t been “informed” of this policy before, during or after my 2-year contract with TT. 

The policy is anti-competitive (it forces people to bin/replace a valuable device they own if the switch ISP’s) and it is unethical insofar as it locks somebody else’s property to a certain ISP as well as creating electronic waste unnecessarily.

[Gondola]

Hey Webb3284 

BT Routers are locked to the BT network and always have been even before BT started requesting them back. So you're suggesting that is also anti-competitive?  Get real, Ofcom would pounce if the practice of network locking free issue devices was in any way anti-competitive.

You were informed at the point of ordering that eeros supplied free issue by TalkTalk are restricted to use on the TalkTalk network only. At the end of the contract you can continue to use the eero only on the TalkTalk network.  You are choosing to ignore that fact. You would also have been told that eeros purchased by you are unrestricted and you can use those off the TalkTalk network.

Other ISP's also offer eeros also with the restriction on use to that ISP network only and that's also stated at order stage and in T&C's. So TalkTalk is not the only ISP that this applies to.

[Webb3284]

You might want to read the T&C’s there, it specifically states the customer owns the device. It also states that the device may be locked but that TT will inform the customer if that is the case…. Hence my original post as I was not notified of this being the case.

Irrespective of this, to offer the Eero device as “free” implies ownership and, as with mobiles, once the contract has been satisfied to full-term the device should be unlocked. It’s unethical and anti-competitive to have a customer owning something which they can only use on the original network.

[fr8ys]

@ufo_BN38EZ_1 if you read the replies so far you will see you don't own the Eero as per your T&C when signing up.

TalkTalk will not change their position on this.

PS you should of started your own thread as it's easier for staff to answer one customer per thread.

[ufo_BN38EZ_1]

There must be a way for TT to send a firmware update to release them rather than create more waste.

I have the eero pro 6 supplied bby TT. I later purchased an eero 6 extender direct from Amazon so I would like to use the pro 6 TT supplied me rather than having to buy another from Amazon to make use of the extender.

[Gondola]

Yes you own them for restricted use on the TalkTalk network and with TalkTalk packages as you'd been told during the order process exactly as it says in T&C's that you would be told.

That's clear enough? Wait for TalkTalk to confirm.